Communion Port-How Much is Sold ?

[Richard Henderson]

I disclose that I am Episcopalian but many relgious groups, Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians and others use only port for communion. I wonder how much port is used weekly for religious purposes and I wonder if any one has ever done a study of how much impact this has on the port trade worldwide, probably only the NV market?

[Derek T.]

WOW!

I was raised as a Catholic, now atheist, and never knew it was port that I was sipping at communion. Perhaps some good came of it after all :devil:

[Andy Velebil]

I've got no idea...I wasn't aware they still used real alcohol. For some reason I thought it was now just grape juice of some sort with no alcohol.

[Tom Archer]

In the UK at least, the norm is cheap ruby cut 50:50 with water..

..you won't get drunk in a hurry!

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Since when did Manischewitz start importing Port? I know (from this forum) that Taylor makes a Kosher Port. I would think that only Kosher Port could be used at Communion as the churches here use only Kosher wine (my experience is with Catholics other than my own religion).

[Tom Archer]

Am I missing something here.. - why would Christians worry about something being Kosher..?

(He says, after a nice ham salad for lunch.. )

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Am I missing something here.. - why would Christians worry about something being Kosher..?

(He says, after a nice ham salad for lunch.. )

Tom

Jesus drank Kosher wine...

Other than that, I don't have answer, but have seen the wine bottles under the alter...

[Tom Archer]

Jesus drank Kosher wine...

But his followers don't..

[Moses Botbol]

Jesus drank Kosher wine...

But his followers don't..

A lot of his followers do not do as he did or preached... Priests are suppose to be closer to the ideal...

I think even the Holy Father uses Kosher wine in Communion. Perhaps he does not drink it with dinner.

[Tom Archer]

Only the Jewish festivals use kosher wine, the word kosher is not used at all in the Bible.

This is getting a bit off-topic - there's quite a good piece here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_wine

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Only the Jewish festivals use kosher wine, the word kosher is not used at all in the Bible.

This is getting a bit off-topic - there's quite a good piece here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_wine

Tom

Kosher wine is not used in the Bible because virtually all wine was Kosher back then. Not much effort makes it Kosher vs. not Kosher. Wine being Kosher was implied and did not need to be called as such.

I have seen Kosher wines at Catholic churches my whole life. Usually the real cheap crap too. I cannot speak for other Christian sects.

[Andy Velebil]

Hey guys, lets try to keep this one on the track of the original question and not get into a religious debate

[Moses Botbol]

Hey guys, lets try to keep this one on the track of the original question and not get into a religious debate

:stupid:

I don't think the world wide use of Port in Communion would even fill five containers a year. How would one even estimate estimate this?

[Richard Henderson]

I meant this as a serious thread. In the Episcopal Church of the USA there are 100 dioceses with several hundred churches that use only port each Sunday. We are part of a new local parrish and we are furnishing , happily, the communion wine which is usually a pretty good NV ruby. We use a half bottle each week with 30 parrishioners. There are many much larger churches that use even more. I was just wondering , rhetorically, how much impact this had on the port market.

We take home and drink the other half bottles ourselves!

[Andy Velebil]

We take home and drink the other half bottles ourselves!

NICE!!!

I guess it would really depend on how many of the individual churches actually use an alcoholic product and not just grape juice. Or if larger congregations dilute it with water or something else to make a bottle go farther. But the potential is there for a large amount to be bought world wide, albeit just the inexpensive stuff. And there is millions of cases of that produced each year. I'm not sure we will ever know the full amount used, but it does raise a curious question.

[Derek T.]

I can't be certain but I am fairly sure that in Scotland the Catholic churches use fortified wines that are produced by Monks. Buckfast being an example.

[Eric Menchen]

I guess it would really depend on how many of the individual churches actually use an alcoholic product and not just grape juice. Or if larger congregations dilute it with water or something else to make a bottle go farther.

It is my understanding that in the Catholic church it is always alcoholic, and always diluted. The dilution is in fact part of the Eucharist. The priest mixes water with wine to match what Jesus did. Jesus did this because
1. In those times wine was regularly concentrated and strong (for purposes of transport and other reasons)
2. In typical Jewish ceremonial meals a lot of wine is consumed, and if one wishes to last the evening, dilution is prudent
I thought there was a third reason, but I don't remember it not. I was taught it was expressly not because Jesus bled both water and blood when pierced by the spear.
wikipedia seems to support me on the alcohol part and the fact it is diluted, with some pretty good sources cited. I'm still searching for the other reason(s) why it is diluted.

[Richard Henderson]

In the episcopal chruches I have attended , a small amount of water is added as the wine is consecrated but it is a very small amount , maybe a teaspoon full to the chalice which has about two cups. The water , if I remember right from confirmation classes has religious significance ( maybe symbolic of transformation) but it is not to dilute the wine. What I taste is a real ruby or tawny port, not significantly diluted.

[John Trombley]

Another Episcopalian chiming in here--I was surprised to find when I changed parishes after moving to Ohio that the communion tipple at Trinity Church, Troy was a very nice and sound California port-style wine. I'd love to get something genuine at the same price point from Portugal, if anyone has any ideas, and slip some to the Rector.

Another issue is that Episcopalians, by canon law, I believe, require fortified vinha.

[John Trombley]

Another Episcopalian chiming in here--I was surprised to find when I changed parishes after moving to Ohio that the communion tipple at Trinity Church, Troy was a very nice and sound California port-style wine. I'd love to get something genuine at the same price point from Portugal, if anyone has any ideas, and slip some to the Rector.

Another issue is that Episcopalians, by canon law, I believe, require fortified vinha.

One of the joys of being a Eucharistic Minister for me is sharing good wine with the brethren/cistern.