Colheita Ports and Aging

[Mahmoud Ali]

A recent post in the Tasting Notes section has got me wondering about the ability of colheitas to age and improve in bottle. When I was first starting my wine hobby I had heard that colheitas do not improve in bottle and that in fact they should be drunk soon after bottling so as to appreciate their "freshness".

Andy Velebil has recently posted a tasting note on a 1934 Taylor's Colheitas that was bottled in '76 or '77. That makes it 42 or 43 years old at bottling and 37 or 38 years old on opening. Regardless of the score Andy gave it (94 points for those who are interested) his notes show that it has developed well in bottle. Clearly, some colheitas can develop in bottle.

My question is whether most colheitas can improve in bottle and does the age of the colheita make a difference. Specifically, does the age of the colheita at bottling makes a difference, in that the aging might temper the port much like Madeira with the estufa methods?

Cheers...................Mahmoud.

[Moses Botbol]

Comes down the producer; any blanket statement that Colheitas cannot age in the bottle is simply false. Some brands of Colheita age better than others.

[Eric Ifune]

Dirk Niepoort thinks that those that are unfiltered before bottling can improve with time. I think everyone agrees that they will change with time, but improvement is debatable. I think I agree with Dirk.

[Glenn E.]

Eric and Moses summed it up.

They can age well in bottle, but it depends on the producer and their style. In my experience unfiltered Colheitas like Dirk's age and improve in bottle. Filtered also change, but most people probably wouldn't say that they're improving. (For me it still depends on the producer.)

Very acidic styles seem to age well to me, even if filtered. The time seems to help mellow/integrate the acidity a bit. But it can be a fine line for filtered Colheitas... Too long and they can start to go flat.

[Andy Velebil]

Eric and Moses summed it up.

They can age well in bottle, but it depends on the producer and their style. In my experience unfiltered Colheitas like Dirk's age and improve in bottle. Filtered also change, but most people probably wouldn't say that they're improving. (For me it still depends on the producer.)

Very acidic styles seem to age well to me, even if filtered. The time seems to help mellow/integrate the acidity a bit. But it can be a fine line for filtered Colheitas... Too long and they can start to go flat.

Generally agree with the above.

However, Tawny's are not unfiltered. All tawny's will have some filtration from cask to bottle. If not, to some degree, there would be sediment floating around in it. The degree to which they are filtered would be another factor in how well or not they may age.

[Glenn E.]

Eric and Moses summed it up.

They can age well in bottle, but it depends on the producer and their style. In my experience unfiltered Colheitas like Dirk's age and improve in bottle. Filtered also change, but most people probably wouldn't say that they're improving. (For me it still depends on the producer.)

Very acidic styles seem to age well to me, even if filtered. The time seems to help mellow/integrate the acidity a bit. But it can be a fine line for filtered Colheitas... Too long and they can start to go flat.

Generally agree with the above.

However, Tawny's are not unfiltered. All tawny's will have some filtration from cask to bottle. If not, to some degree, there would be sediment floating around in it. The degree to which they are filtered would be another factor in how well or not they may age.

I've had many a Tawny with sediment floating around in it.

Gravity can be a fine "filter" as you know. Otherwise every glass tapped directly from a cask would have sediment in it, but they rarely have any.

[Andy Velebil]

Eric and Moses summed it up.

They can age well in bottle, but it depends on the producer and their style. In my experience unfiltered Colheitas like Dirk's age and improve in bottle. Filtered also change, but most people probably wouldn't say that they're improving. (For me it still depends on the producer.)

Very acidic styles seem to age well to me, even if filtered. The time seems to help mellow/integrate the acidity a bit. But it can be a fine line for filtered Colheitas... Too long and they can start to go flat.

Generally agree with the above.

However, Tawny's are not unfiltered. All tawny's will have some filtration from cask to bottle. If not, to some degree, there would be sediment floating around in it. The degree to which they are filtered would be another factor in how well or not they may age.

I've had many a Tawny with sediment floating around in it.

Gravity can be a fine "filter" as you know. Otherwise every glass tapped directly from a cask would have sediment in it, but they rarely have any.

And so have I. All from older bottlings where they have then dropped sediment while in bottle. If you stick a hose into a barrel, or open the valve at the bottom of a larger vat, do you think they won't suck up some sediment or stir it up during that process? If you think not, you really should go spend some time at a winery during bottling time. I'm not saying that to be rude, but all wine, which includes Port, will have some level of filtration as it has to. Heck even VP has filtration to a degree. Otherwise we'd all be chewing pips, grape skins, and all kinds of other things. Granted the filter for VP isn't super fine, but it is a level of filtration.

Here's a picture of VP going through it's first filtration, after fermentation. As you can see it's not very fine, but it's there to catch the bigger stuff so it doesn't end up in the bottles we drink.

[Glenn E.]

Yes, Andy, and yet we have "unfiltered" LBV. So it is perfectly reasonable to draw a similar filtered/unfiltered distinction between Colheitas as well.

[Andy Velebil]

Yes, Andy, and yet we have "unfiltered" LBV. So it is perfectly reasonable to draw a similar filtered/unfiltered distinction between Colheitas as well.

Because there isn't a difference. Lets look at this another way. You've got a barrel of Port that for 7 years has sat there. During that time it's changed from a ruby to a tawny in classification and also dropped sediment along the way similar to if it was in a bottle. When you turn the tap at the bottom of that vat and all that tawny comes out the bottom so does a whole lot of sediment. You've got to lightly filter it off to remove it. Just like putting a VP through cheesecloth, it filters out the sediment without really affecting the Port. OF course, you can put it through a very heavy fining, filtration, and/or cold stabilization process as well, which does happen on some inexpensive tawny's.

Same goes for a typical smaller barrel. When someone shoves a hose into that barrel and turns on the suction machine to pull it out it stirs up what's inside the barrel. You have lightly filter that off as in the example above.

[Glenn E.]

So why quibble about referring to some Colheitas as unfiltered when ALL Port is filtered to some extent, even LBV that is labeled as unfiltered?

[Andy Velebil]

So why quibble about referring to some Colheitas as unfiltered when ALL Port is filtered to some extent, even LBV that is labeled as unfiltered?

Because there is a pretty big difference between a wine that is very lightly filtered, to only remove visible sediment that accumulated while in barrel before bottling, and one that is very heavily fined, filtered, and cold stabilized.

[Moses Botbol]

So why quibble about referring to some Colheitas as unfiltered when ALL Port is filtered to some extent, even LBV that is labeled as unfiltered?

Because there is a pretty big difference between a wine that is very lightly filtered, to only remove visible sediment that accumulated while in barrel before bottling, and one that is very heavily fined, filtered, and cold stabilized.

Indeed

[Eric Ifune]

To me, course filtering is not really filtering at all. Just through a course pad. Real filtering is through a micropore filter under pressure. We're talking microns here.

[Glenn E.]

So why quibble about referring to some Colheitas as unfiltered when ALL Port is filtered to some extent, even LBV that is labeled as unfiltered?

Because there is a pretty big difference between a wine that is very lightly filtered, to only remove visible sediment that accumulated while in barrel before bottling, and one that is very heavily fined, filtered, and cold stabilized.

But that is exactly my point. Not all Colheita is heavily fined, filtered, and cold stabilized. The ones that aren't tend to develop nicely in the bottle.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I think we're talking semantics here. Not all wines can be filtered - otherwise the term "unfiltered" or "non-filtre" would have no meaning, and neither would any claim on back labels saying that their wines are unfiltered.

The way I see it what Andy is talking about is straining, not filtering. Looking at the picture he posted I wouldn't call it filtering in the vinous sense. Wine and port producers have many ways of removing particulates starting with fining, racking, and straining. Filtration is what Eric said: "through a micropore filter under pressure."

Racking, as far as I know isn't literally from the bottom of the barrel but just above the the sediment layer, and in case there are bigger chunks of sediment the coarse filter, or strainer, catches them. After racking several times there probably won't be much left in terms of skins, pips, etc.

Mahmoud.