Tête-à-tête: Graham's Six Grapes vs. Noval Black

[Roy Hersh]

Consider it done, once I get the newsletter into Stewart's hands.

[Andy Velebil]

I am going to do the side-by-side test myself and might just include a few other Reserve Ruby Ports too, so that when I taste them blind, it will be less obvious. I may even do this with a panel of local Port enthusiasts.

Interesting idea. Perhaps we could organise a cross-Atlantic tasting where we pick six Ruby Reserves that are available in both markets and organise blind tastings in London and Seattle on the same date?

Good idea. I also can participate here in L.A. Maybe we could figure out a good time where we all could be online (video) like this past Friday.

[C. Gonzalez]

Am I allowed to vote on this one Roy? I suppose not. But am enjoying the debate! Christian Seely

[Andy Velebil]

Am I allowed to vote on this one Roy? I suppose not. But am enjoying the debate! Christian Seely

Well, I heard you may be a bit biased so that may skew the results

[Phyllis D]

Am I allowed to vote on this one Roy? I suppose not. But am enjoying the debate! Christian Seely

Christian,

This may "require" a triple blind taste test for you. Triple blind when a double blind just won't do.

[Roy Hersh]

I am starting to see a clear advantage forming in the poll so far. Hopefully others will weigh in. I realize it is a stylistic preference issue. Until Noval Black came along I probably enjoyed these Reserve Rubies in order:

a. Graham's Six Grapes
b. Cockburn's Special Reserve - they seem to have revived the quality in the past couple of years since the Symington's took over.
c. Fonseca Bin 27 - but have found significant stylistic variation in quality over the decades.
d. Sandeman Founder's Reserve - at one time back in the early to late 1980's this was my favorite but the quality went down hill under a specific owner that took over and made poor decisions in upping the yields (hl/ha) to previously un-thought of levels under the old regime. So more of a sentimental favorite nowadays.
e. Warre's Warrior - which has remained consistently good and elegant throughout.


Derek if you are reading, would these make for a good half dozen tasting? What about you Andy? How about Jeff G. on the E. coast? Anybody else ... how about our friends in Boston and Chicago. I would even re-open our VIRTUAL TASTING ROOM area for this one. : )

[Derek T.]

Roy,

That would be a good line-up, although I can't say I have seen the Sandeman for sale in the UK. It might surprise our US contingent to know that Sandeman, which at one time was one of the most prominent two shippers in the UK, no longer focus their energy on the UK market. The wines are available, but not in anywhere near the quantity or through as many outlets at SFE and TFP brands.

The only criticism I would have of your list is that it is perhaps unfair to have 50% of the wines coming from one stable. Perhaps we should drop the Warre and include Taylor First Estate or Croft Distinction?

Portuguese brands would be difficult to find in the UK but if anyone can think of any that we could get our hands on it would be useful.

On timing, I think it will be difficult, if not impossible, to do this across three or four time zones simultaneously. There is a risk that if we try to do that it will never happen due to conflicts in timing. Perhaps we could just go for doing this in a number of cities on the same day or in the same week?

[Roy Hersh]

Coordinating a Virtual Tasting is nearly impossible for a "simultaneous" experience. I think it is best for us to all agree on a week a month or two away (say ... late February or even late March) ... agree to what Ports and have it run for a full seven days. Should be a blast. Like I mentioned, it would rejuvenate Frederick's old turf in the Virtual Tasting Room which would be ideal.

Also, a comment on Sandeman and the UK. I have a feeling that the reason why at one time it was so big in the UK was of course Sandeman was a family originally from Scotland (as you well know) and their parent company was based in the UK. The original offices were also based in the UK before even Portugal if I am not mistaken, but it has been years since I read their book and history. Anyway, they were then owned by a Canadian firm that also had deep ties to the UK (Seagram's). Now that Sogrape owns them, with deep roots in Portuguese culture and other brands like Offley and Ferreira which I bet you don't see much of either, beyond possibly the Tawnies of the latter company (but you can tell me w/ more accuracy) ... I have a feeling that is why they are concentrating more on Brazil and No. America nowadays. I also know they did not want to get into the battle of the big Port brands, when it came to price wars within the UK's "Big 5".

As to your comment about dropping one of the SFE Reserve Ruby Ports, that works for me. As long as we all have consensus on which 6 to taste, that would be great. I will host a tasting at my home for 7 other guests from the local area and we will do them all bagged-blind of course. We will also do SIMPLE rankings from 1-6 which is the favorite (#1) and least favorite (#6). That way if we can all agree to make it simple and quantifiable, we can do this in as many time zones and organize our own ... #ReserveRubyDay. Kidding of course, would love to keep it between the two forums and combine results of all votes and I could even do an article to put all of our results together and make the public for all to see.

What say you and anyone else who wants to join in this wonderful Port exercise?

Personally, I think late March would be best, so we can agree to a specific week, (everyone) doing this blind (very important if ranking, is to be done fairly!!!) and then make sure we can all agree to wines which are available in all markets, taking your suggestion to spread this over numerous brands and producers. I am open to any and all suggestions.

[Andy Velebil]

It is possible to do a live, on-line offline. But that would require the west to start round about 12 noon, and those on the other side of the Pond to start after dinner. Everyone else would be somewhere in between. No matter, I'm down to do this and think it would be a really fun experience.

[Eric Menchen]

Now that Sogrape owns them, with deep roots in Portuguese culture ... I have a feeling that is why they are concentrating more on Brazil and No. America nowadays.

I'd much rather go after new markets than try to compete in a cutthroat market, but that is just me. Interestingly, the Brazilian economy and UK are about equal in GDP. After that we can debate free cash, societal evolution, potential market size ...

[Derek T.]

All sounds good to me - I'm trying to drum up enthusiasm amongst the stiff-upper-lip Vintage Port drinkers on this side. I'm fairly sure some of them have never tasted a ruby port so I will have to tempt them with the promise of some VP in a second flight

[Phyllis D]

While we are all on the lookout for the final list, perhaps we can start coming up with a list of suggested amuse-bouche to accompany the Ports.


I'll start:
1. Maple syrup glazed, Hickory smoked baccn wrapped, manchego stuffed dates


Please feel free to move this to another thread if appropriate.

[John M.]

My group, The Society of Portly Gentlemen, a.k.a. Port Club, is supposed to meet either 3/23 or 3/30. And we would be very interested in doing this--most of these reserves are readily available. Count us in!!!

[Roy Hersh]

Great news John. The end of March would be much better, as I have four events the first week 10 days of March which have me traveling for Port, Madeira and Claret and would not be able to do it at that time. Besides it would be great to be able to rally a troop of people to sit around the table and really evaluate six bottles over the course of a few hours.

Phyllis, I am sure there are lots of people who would love to have food with their Ports, I am a purist most of the time and avoid food and Port simultaneously. I will break that traditionalism on Saturday night though.


Andy, when I worked on Robin Garr's site I held a weekly live chat that was open for people in NZ/SA and No. Americans but was not good for those in Europe; time wise. When we did live "virtual" tastings on line, the Europeans would always get miffed that they were not included. I think we are better not to exlude anyone, keep this to the Virtual Tasting Room and then people would not be constrained by times that others set for them. If we choose, say, the last week of March ... everybody would have plenty of time to prepare and procure the bottles and then have any day during a week to do their tastings.

[Marc J.]

This sounds very promising! From my perspective late March would be a perfect time to hold the tasting. I also agree with Derek, we should strive to have as diverse a group of Ports as possible.

[Glenn E.]

Late March works for me as well. I'm busy over St. Patrick's Day weekend helping deplete the Port reserves in NYC.

[Al B.]

Some reserve rubies are very good these days. I wonder if it would be interesting to include a single outlier, like a Taylor 2003 LBV, something that we can use as a yardstick to measure the other ports.

[Andy Velebil]

I've started a PROPER THREAD IN THE OFFLINE SECTION HERE so we can do proper planning for this.

[Derek T.]

I feel very strongly that these 5 should definitely be in the mix and should be able to be found everywhere. … So IF there is to be a 6th added, which should it be? Or again, do we just stick to 5?

I feel very strongly that the above post is in the wrong thread…

I've started a PROPER THREAD IN THE OFFLINE SECTION HERE so we can do proper planning for this.

[Andy Velebil]

I feel very strongly that these 5 should definitely be in the mix and should be able to be found everywhere. … So IF there is to be a 6th added, which should it be? Or again, do we just stick to 5?

I feel very strongly that the above post is in the wrong thread…

I've started a PROPER THREAD IN THE OFFLINE SECTION HERE so we can do proper planning for this.

I took care of that, it's in the right place now