Quinta do Noval and Noval LBV discussion

[Mahmoud Ali]

MODERATOR EDIT: This discussion was originally started over this tasting note on the 2003 Quinta do Noval LBV
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... 12&t=37595


Thanks for the replies.

The only reason I asked about the bottling year was because LBVs like Smith Woodhouse and Warre's were called "Traditional" and convention had it that it would be unfiltered and bottled at only 4 years of age. Producers who used to make simpler, more ready-to-drink LBVs bottled theirs at 5-6 years depending on the vintage and were most likely to be filtered, which also was most useful for the restaurant trade - producers like Taylors, Fonseca, Cockburn, Graham, etc. Now the term "Traditional" is no longer allowed. So, although the regulations say that LBVs are to be bottled between 4-6 years after the vintage, if I understand things correctly, the only distinction between the more serious and easier to drink versons appears to be the use of the word "Unfiltered" on the label. Maybe someone can confirm or correct me on this. I believe Smith Woodhouse and Warre's continue to follow the practice of bottling after only 4 years and they remain unfiltered.

I did take a look at the Noval website and I see that they have two LBVs - one is called the Quinta do Noval LBV, a "Single Vineyard" that "is aged for four, sometimes five years in wooden vats." They also have a Noval LBV for which there is no description so I assume that it is a less serious style LBV made with some non-quinta grapes. So, as far as the 2003 Quinta do Noval LBV is concerned the fact that it was bottled after 5 years means it must be one of the years where they decided to keep it an extra year. I take that as an indication that it was a powerful and tannic vintage and that the extra year was needed - a good sign in my estimation.

As an aside, I have been noticing that the bottling date indication is missing on the labels of some recent LBVs. For example, the '04 Dow LBV had a bottling date but the '05 didn't; also a recent '07 Cockburn LBV also had no bottling date either.

Cheers....................Mahmoud.

[Glenn E.]

My understanding is that "Tradicional" just meant "Unfiltered" and nothing else. It had nothing to do with when it was bottled. People found that confusing, though, so they changed the regulations to simply say "Unfiltered" to remove the confusion.

The Noval Single Vineyard LBV is relatively new, as I recall, and I don't know much about it. I think the first vintage may have been 2008? But I'm really not sure. Their normal LBV is very much a "serious" LBV, though. It is unfiltered and has a full driven cork, which are the two signs I generally look for when shopping for a serious LBV. The number of years prior to bottling doesn't really factor into my search.

FWIW Smith Woodhouse's LBVs are also "bottle matured" - they hold them back for some minimum number of years before releasing them. They're usually excellent, too.

[Andy Velebil]

Noval does have a filtered and an unfiltered LBV. Depends on which market, or customer, gets which. Airlines get the filtered version so they don't have to mess with corkscrews and sediment. IIRC, there are certain European countries that also get the filtered version as that is what the market there prefers.

The "Single Vineyard" is just a good marketing bit, as we all know that to have "Quinta do" on the label means it comes from one vineyard.*

The other one, as it does not have "Quinta do" Noval on it would mean not all the grapes come from the main Quinta. I would assume this is the filtered version I mentioned above.

*mostly all one Quinta as there is some wiggle room in the regulations.

[Glenn E.]

The other one, as it does not have "Quinta do" Noval on it

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

So they make 3? "Single Quinta", "Quinta do Noval", and just plan "Noval"?

[Eric Menchen]

No, Andy is just saying that the "Quinto do" is already "Single Quinta," and they are just adding that on. Just one product there, and then the non-Quinta version.

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[Eric Menchen]

Of course the difference between a four year and five year could just be a few months, or even a day.

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[Andy Velebil]

No, Andy is just saying that the "Quinto do" is already "Single Quinta," and they are just adding that on. Just one product there, and then the non-Quinta version.

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Correct.

I'm trying to remember here, but I think the "Single Quinta.." part is a more recent add on to the main label for the unfiltered version. Best I can tell they started using it on the 2005 Unfiltered LBV label.

[Glenn E.]

No, Andy is just saying that the "Quinto do" is already "Single Quinta," and they are just adding that on. Just one product there, and then the non-Quinta version.

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Correct.

I'm trying to remember here, but I think the "Single Quinta.." part is a more recent add on to the main label for the unfiltered version. Best I can tell they started using it on the 2005 Unfiltered LBV label.

Just to add to the confusion... I looked at the empty from this bottle last night.

It's a "Noval" with no "Quinta do" and also labeled "Unfiltered" with a full driven cork.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Andy, Eric, you are right. The Quinta Do Noval LBV is the the 'single quinta' and the term itself may very well have made it's appearance on the label with the '05 vintage as I don't recall seeing it on the '04. The label for this unfiltered LBV also changed from white to black - my bottles from the '94 and '96 vintage are white labels.

The Noval LBV may well be the new iteration of something that used to be called the Noval LB. It has the Noval name without the word 'Quinta' indicating that it is not, at least wholly, from the quinta - hence Noval LBV. This is the filtered version for use, as Andy points out, in the restaurant and airline trade. It also has a white label.

The first time I saw the Noval LB on the shelf, many years ago, there were a few bottles of the Quinta do Noval LBV mixed in among the bottles - they looked almost identical. Naturally enough I bought and tried the LBV (not the LB) and was floored by the quality so I went back and bought the remaining two. I still have those bottles as later on I managed to find a 12-bottle case of 1/2 bottles which I'm still going through. Interestingly the '94s did not have 'unfiltered' on the label and were bottled in 1999 - 5 years post vintage. I never saw a '95 bottling but with the '96 came the term 'unfiltered' on the front label. Somehow, based on things I may have read many years ago, I think the '94 was either Noval's first step or early step in making a 'traditional-styled', cellaring LBV.

Mahmoud.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Just to add to the confusion... I looked at the empty from this bottle last night.

It's a "Noval" with no "Quinta do" and also labeled "Unfiltered" with a full driven cork.

Hi Glenn, I just noticed your post, right after I composed and posted mine. Sounds like you have the Noval LBV and it seems that Andy and I were wrong, as even their 'non-quinta' version is unfiltered. Quality seems to be a byword at this estate. Of course there is a possibility that they might make two versions of the Noval LBV - an unfiltered one for retail and a filtered for the restaurants and airlines. Hence the lack of desription and specifications on their website.

Is the label on your bottle white?

Mahmoud.

[Glenn E.]

Just to add to the confusion... I looked at the empty from this bottle last night.

It's a "Noval" with no "Quinta do" and also labeled "Unfiltered" with a full driven cork.

Hi Glenn, I just noticed your post, right after I composed and posted mine. Sounds like you have the Noval LBV and it seems that Andy and I were wrong, as even their 'non-quinta' version is unfiltered. Quality seems to be a byword at this estate. Of course there is a possibility that they might make two versions of the Noval LBV - an unfiltered one for retail and a filtered for the restaurants and airlines. Hence the lack of desription and specifications on their website.

Is the label on your bottle white?

I don't remember for sure (I'll check tonight), but I believe it's a black label.

Re: Noval LB - that is a Ruby Reserve, not an LBV. "Finest Reserve" actually. Black label, big red "LB" lettering.

Re: Single Vineyard (note: NOT Single Quinta) - they produced this in at least 2005 (white label) and 2007 (black label), and I believe 2008 also but can't find any links. It has the full "Quinta do Noval" label but clearly says "Single Vineyard" under the year and "Unfiltered".

[Eric Menchen]

And LB was somewhat replaced by Noval Black.

[Andy Velebil]

And LB was somewhat replaced by Noval Black.

Yes, in the USA. I think the LB is still sold in Europe, at least it was initially. Not sure if that's the case now.

Edit: I checked their website and I don't see the "LB" listed anymore. Possibly safe to assume they've killed that line off. However, this being Port there may be a very limited exception for some markets but not enough to warrant listing it.

I think I'm going to split off this discussion into it's own Noval LBV thread in the main forum, as it's gone far past comments on a tasting note and will be easier to find in a search later.

[Andy Velebil]

Of course there is a possibility that they might make two versions of the Noval LBV - an unfiltered one for retail and a filtered for the restaurants and airlines. Hence the lack of desription and specifications on their website.

Mahmoud.

I do know for a fact they also have, or had until very recently, an unfiltered version too. That question, and hence my reply, was specifically answered for me by someone at Noval a couple years ago.

[Andy Velebil]

Ok, the more I look at the Noval LBV picture on their website it appears they also use a driven cork on that one as well as the one with the black label that says "Unfiltered."

As I don't see any mention on the white label of being unfiltered, I am going to assume this is the filtered version that also uses a driven cork. I wonder if they still have the t-cork sealed LBV that they used to have for the airlines, etc? As I was told in the past one of the reason for the filtered/t-corked bottles was for ease of airline use (no corkscrew needed and no sediment issues).

[Glenn E.]

Just checked and I misremembered the label. It us in fact a white label, not black like I thought.

So... 2003 "Noval", white label, driven cork, unfiltered, bottled 2008.

[Bradley Bogdan]

Opened these three last month, all top notch LBVs, didn't realize the white label was only Noval, no quinta.


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[Bradley Bogdan]

All three say unfiltered (even if it's tough to see with the light on the '04) and all three had driven corks.


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