Which vintage have you invested in 1985 vs. 1983?

[Roy Hersh]

Do you have a preference and why?

Recommendations for novices to purchase?

[Glenn E.]

I've invested far more in 1985, but it's more happenstance than a deliberate choice. The good 1985s have simply been available at good prices more often (for me) than the good 1983s.

I also put together that 1985 horizontal, so that contributed a few additional "+1" bottles when I was buying them.

As far as recommendations go... I'll start with the obvious and let others fill in some of the more interesting choices.

1985 Fonseca
1985 Graham

These two really should be in any serious cellar. They're both easily in the top 5 Ports of the entire decade. (Since I know someone will ask, 1987 Taylor Vargellas, 1983 Graham, 1980 Dow.)

Which should make obvious at least one more recommendation...

1983 Graham
1983 Ramos Pinto

The '83 Graham is borderline top 5 of the decade for me and sometimes gets swapped out for any of a number of others, but it's right up there. The '83 Ramos Pinto is a sleeper and can be hard to find, but regularly surprises people who've never considered it when discussing 1983's top Ports.

[Moses Botbol]

I own much more 1985 than '83. Probably have 6-10 cases of that vintage, but only a case at best combined of '83. '85 is more common in the retail and auction market place for whatever reason.

[Andy Velebil]

I own about twice as many 1985's as I do 1983's. IMO, and with some exceptions, I think 1985's will last longer for the top ones than '83. By and large, most 1983's are reaching maturity rather quickly and make fine drinking right now while the top 85's are still rather youthful. I've also had less bottle variations in 1985's.

[Al B.]

I've got a little more than twice as many 1985 bottles as I have 1983 bottles. I don't think this was a deliberate decision by me but seems to have been as much a feature of what was available on the market at a good price at the time. Most of the 1983 that I have is Warre or Graham with a bit of Taylor and Dow. The 1985 is a mix; Taylor, Smith Woodhouse, Pocas, Martinez, Graham, Fonseca, Dow and Churchill.

[Moses Botbol]

Are there any stats on volume produced for the two vintages?

[Eric Menchen]

I have more 1985 than 1983 (by about 75%), but that is more a function of availability than desire. I personally love the 1983 SW and Grahams compared to their 1985 counterparts, which I also think are good. Of course 1985 Fonseca is outstanding, and I do have a bit of that, and no F83.

[Moses Botbol]

Of course 1985 Fonseca is outstanding, and I do have a bit of that, and no F83.

F83 is one of their weaker vintages. Not missing much.

[David Spriggs]

For me 1985 is clearly better. 1985 Fonseca is one of the greatest Ports made in my lifetime. Yes, I love it that much. It will out live me for sure. 1985 Graham's is also very special.
1983 used to be so much better when it was younger. The wines seems to have lost their way.

[Andy Velebil]

.....
1983 used to be so much better when it was younger. The wines seems to have lost their way.

David,
Do you think they will come out of that lost way with time?

[Thomas V]

Being quite the novice myself and trying to establish my own cellar of drink worthy vintage port I have been seeking out these bottles from the 80's more than any other bottles.

The reason:
Most of the 83' and 85' are drinking mature now with 30+ years of age except a few exceptions to that.
They are far more affordable right now than the bottles from 63', 66', 70 and 77'.
The are wonderful to drink and represent 2 years were very good vintage port was produced.

Following the advice from the experts inhere and also going a little rogue and trying others bottlings that the mostly recommend I find myself at a state where my cellar is in, my opinion, a good mix between the 2 vintages. Though I find it much easier, at least out of Denmark, to obtain 1985 bottles. There are more of them and they are nicely priced still except the Fonseca and Graham's where the 1983' are more scares to find.

1983 Ramos Pinto
1983 Graham's
1983 Gould Campbell
1983 Smith Woodhouse

For me there is no doubt that the Ramos Pinto is ahead of the pack. I have had it twice with in 6 months and both showings at 95 points. It is just absolutely delicious right now for my palate. The other 3 mentioned here are also drinking well and around 91-92 points for me. I tasted the Gould Campbell last Saturday and it is very good now, but I think it has more to offer down the line.

1985 Smith Woodhouse
1985 Gould Campbell
1985 Graham's
1985 Ferreira
1985 Fonseca
1985 Taylor's
1985 Dow's

The only 1 I have not tasted yet will most likely end up being the best one as that is pretty much consensus inhere, that the 1985 Fonseca is the best port of the 80's. Of the remaining ones I really enjoyed the Ferreira that is now at a point where it looks like a 30 year old tawny on colour and has a elegant and feminine style making it great to drink right now. The Gould Campbell and Smithwood house are both young of mind and need more time to develop into their true selves. The Dow's I really like where it is at right now having tasted it twice in the last 18 months. Only tried the Graham's once and it was a bad bottle, so I need a rematch to have a fair take on that one. Often people inhere rank it as the 2nd best bottle of the centrury.

A few thoughts.

Since Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse will be discontinued by the Symington Family these bottles will increase in value. So best get some before they all disappear like the Krohn 30 did a year ago.

I am doing a large 80's tasting where most of these bottles are featured in 10 days, I will be back with a fresh status rapport about how they are drinking. It is a blind tasting.

Cheers Thomas

P.s. great topic.

[Eric Menchen]

Since Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse will be discontinued by the Symington Family these bottles will increase in value. So best get some before they all disappear like the Krohn 30 did a year ago.

Smith Woodhouse discontinued? Where did you hear that?

[Thomas V]

Since Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse will be discontinued by the Symington Family these bottles will increase in value. So best get some before they all disappear like the Krohn 30 did a year ago.

Smith Woodhouse discontinued? Where did you hear that?

That was the impression I got from Gustavo Devesas when I asked him about the 2015 vintage and which of their houses would declare. He said that Symington will not be developing Gould Campbell and SWC any longer as they want to focus on their main brands.

[David Spriggs]

.....
1983 used to be so much better when it was younger. The wines seems to have lost their way.

David,
Do you think they will come out of that lost way with time?

No. They will become weaker with time. I'll have to look at my notes from the 1983 and 1985 tastings. All I remember was that the wines were really variable and seemed tired. Yes, shocking!

[Sete Mares]

I think there are some issues with corks in the Portuguese wines of the 80's . Symington re-cork some 80 and 85 Dow's and also 80, 85 and 2000 Gold Campbell .
For me, 1985 is the best investment.


Enviado do meu iPad usando o Tapatalk

[Andy Velebil]

I think there are some issues with corks in the Portuguese wines of the 80's . Symington re-cork some 80 and 85 Dow's and also 80, 85 and 2000 Gold Campbell .
For me, 1985 is the best investment.


Enviado do meu iPad usando o Tapatalk

Yes, it is no secret anymore that the "Lost decade" of Port (mid 1970's to mid 1980s) had many issues, bad corks being one of them. However, a lot of companies recork older wines/Ports on somewhat regular intervals. 30 years seems to be about the average from what I've heard. The Sym's recorked their 1970's stuff some years ago so it makes sense they would now move on to their 80's stuff.

[Tom Archer]

With VP, age conquers most but not all sins..

Last year, at a wide ranging and well stocked tasting, a '68 Fonseca Guimaraens made wine of the night - since when was '68 a good year?

Two years ago, successive horizontals for '85 and '75 saw '75 win comfortably..

Why..? Because increasing age has magically transformed many '75s that were really very uninspiring a decade ago, whilst the '85s are still dogged by a mass of faulty wines that will never recover.

Although there are a small number of '83s that also have persistent flaws, I am pretty certain that the rather lighter '83 vintage will, over time, be hailed as the better year, simply because the flawed '85s won't recover.

Another factor also concerns me - five years ago the Fonseca '85 was a dark and sulkily immature wine that left one in no doubt that it had been opened too early. Then, rather suddenly, it opened up. Now, at my most recent encounter, a couple of weeks ago; it seems to be racing to full maturity - much too fast, I fear..

[Moses Botbol]

Another factor also concerns me - five years ago the Fonseca '85 was a dark and sulkily immature wine that left one in no doubt that it had been opened too early. Then, rather suddenly, it opened up. Now, at my most recent encounter, a couple of weeks ago; it seems to be racing to full maturity - much too fast, I fear..

Do you think that was just a flawed bottle? The F85's I have had in the last year were all dark and drank like a newer vintage; would never guess it as an '85

[Tom Archer]

Do you think that was just a flawed bottle?

No evidence of that. It was the fourth bottle drawn from a case I bought in 2007. There's a steady - but rapid - evolution evident, and if it continues at the same pace, this wine will not be as enduring as many have expected..

[Moses Botbol]

Do you think that was just a flawed bottle?

No evidence of that. It was the fourth bottle drawn from a case I bought in 2007. There's a steady - but rapid - evolution evident, and if it continues at the same pace, this wine will not be as enduring as many have expected..

Maybe you got beat on that case?

I was planning on opening a bottle next weekend. I hope you are wrong!