Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

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Roy Hersh
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Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Roy Hersh »

As we all know, the SFE is ready to give up on Gould Cambell as a brand, dropping the future of this esteemed Port name.

Do we want to mount a "Save Gould Campbell" campaign? I think we have some influence and could lobby other groups to join us. Do you feel this could have any effect?
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John M.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by John M. »

Roy---if you think it should be saved, then I am behind you. It is a nice brand with good ports--not sure why they'd want to shelve it in the first place....there are a few others I would not be nearly as sad about.
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Bradley Bogdan
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Bradley Bogdan »

As a fan of the GC Ports over the years, I'd love to lobby for them.


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Andy Velebil
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Andy Velebil »

I'd love them to keep GC going. I think it's a fantastic product. However, I also understand the business side that says all things will come to an end at some point. It's a tough spot to be in to stop such a long running brand. But it has some major issues, namely it has no specific Quinta associated with it. In these times it's become all about having some Quinta name to associate with a VP.

It also doesn't have any other significant products other than VP. IIRC, they make or made at one time a very small amount of LBV.

So as a company your stuck with a product that has no marketing tie-in, which is important with people now days. It has no significant sales of anything else but a VP a few times a decade. It doesn't have that much product recognition outside Port circles, thus you can't sell it for as much. It's a separate product a company has to make, stock, market, and compete with their other products. Lots of headaches and very little return tend to not last long in the current business world.

Sadly, I don't think any type of effort will keep it going.....kinda like Krohn's.
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Glenn E.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Glenn E. »

I would love to see both Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse continue, but if I try to think about it objectively I really don't see a need.

Both are second-tier names in a large stable of brands. Cutting them means more top-tier grapes can be used in the main brands, hopefully boosting the quality of those higher-profile Ports. It also theoretically means more good grapes are left to use in LBVs, hopefully also boosting the quality of those products.

I really really hate to say it, but I can understand why SFE would want to drop them. :(
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Steve Pollack »

It's similar to the decision GM made to discontinue the Pontiac brand. Each brand is expensive and time consuming to maintain, and if a single company has multiple brands, especially when there are not enough differentiating factors, the weak must perish.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Edward J »

I'm thinking this is already a done deal. The Symington family page lists their brands at the bottom of their web page. Missing is Gould Campbell and Smith-Woodhouse. I would have hoped that a young up and coming member of the family who would like to do things his/her way would take over the brands and develop them further. Smith-Woodhouse does have a single Quinta, and lets face it they can and do buy vineyards with alarming regularity.

On the other hand, as with the Krohn acquisition, why sell these old rare stocks under a lesser name when you can release them under the ultra-premium Taylor name. However, it seems a bit disingenuous. Yet competition, even between families causes producers to ever strive to produce the best products, rather than just settle. Then again, those properties could be hemorrhaging cash and the funds could be directed towards more profitable ventures.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Eric Menchen »

Of the two I'd fight for Smith Woodhouse more. I bought a bunch of their 2011 VP, and have lots of earlier vintages. They also appear to sell a lot of LBV, as I see it in a number of stores near me, as well as colheita. The colheita I've even seen in some restaurants. So it does appear there is some market for this second-tier name. Is there enough market?
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Thomas V
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Thomas V »

It is a business decision on their part.

I am sure they are sad about closing these 2 chapters in the history of Port, but I'd rather they close them down and keep their company running to other great things that to let them dwindle and compromise the company financially.

I enjoy both of these houses very much and am sad to see them go. Luckily for us we still have access to great many ports from these 2 houses from the 60, 70, 80, 90 and 00. So we wont suffer much. It will be the younger generation that will miss out.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Eric Menchen »

Thomas V wrote:Luckily for us we still have access to great many ports from these 2 houses from the 60, 70, 80, 90 and 00. So we wont suffer much. It will be the younger generation that will miss out.
Which makes me wonder if old bottles of the newly extinct labels will go up in relative value because of this. Probably not.
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Thomas V
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Thomas V »

Eric Menchen wrote:
Thomas V wrote:Luckily for us we still have access to great many ports from these 2 houses from the 60, 70, 80, 90 and 00. So we wont suffer much. It will be the younger generation that will miss out.
Which makes me wonder if old bottles of the newly extinct labels will go up in relative value because of this. Probably not.
I doubt it as well. These 2 brands at least in Denmark are not given much attention but the general buyer. Rarely besides the 1985 and 1980 GC, which were mass sold through Vivino, do I see people posting picture, TNs or questions about these 2 houses. It will not be like when Taylor's bought Wiese & Krohn and there was a run on the 30YO Tawny and prices went through the roof.

Fine with me, that ensures that I have access to buying them at a good price.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Roy Hersh »

Andy wrote:
I'd love them to keep GC going. I think it's a fantastic product. However, I also understand the business side that says all things will come to an end at some point. It's a tough spot to be in to stop such a long running brand. But it has some major issues, namely it has no specific Quinta associated with it. In these times it's become all about having some Quinta name to associate with a VP.
Then I would suggest they get rid of Quarles Harris before Gould Campbell. [shrug.gif]


Smith Woodhouse has Madalena to fall back on, so this makes less sense. Are we sure that SW is going away?

I realize that the SFE has already made their decision on GC and there is likely zero chance of that decision being reversed. I wonder if a historic brand like this could be sold outright?
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Mike Meehan
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Mike Meehan »

Roy Hersh wrote:Are we sure that SW is going away?
I'm not sure anyone at SFE has ever said Smith Woodhouse is being dropped.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Andy Velebil »

Mike Meehan wrote:
Roy Hersh wrote:Are we sure that SW is going away?
I'm not sure anyone at SFE has ever said Smith Woodhouse is being dropped.
I don't think they've ever officially said GC or QH (for VP) were either. But has anyone seen one in years? At best 2011 was the last, none for 2015. If they don't show by 2016 we'll know for sure.


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Thomas V
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Thomas V »

Mike Meehan wrote:
Roy Hersh wrote:Are we sure that SW is going away?
I'm not sure anyone at SFE has ever said Smith Woodhouse is being dropped.
This is a response from Gustavo Devesas I had in a mail regarding SFE 2015 vintage declaration and En Primeur.

The quote is regarding Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse, Quarles Harris, Martinez and Quinta do Roriz
As we're not developing these anymore, I can't confirm that we'll be bottling future Vintage Port declarations the same way we do for our main brands.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Christian Gollnick »

In several blind tastings I was surprised how many points I gave to wines from GC. I drink normally wood-age ports - maybe that's why I like these wines, as they are often more approachable than the "big name" VPs, as they don't have such an overpowering tannin-structure.
But as I understand the brand GC will not totally disappear. Yes, the global distribution will be limited, as SFE focuses on other brands - but GC Ports will be still be placed strategically into specific markets.

So no reason yet for obituaries... I hope (and believe) that the decision-makers at SFE are very much aware about the responsibility that such an old brand brings with it... if you grow up in such a family I'm sure that you learn to have a lot of respect for traditions and you think in generations rather than in years. We have seen it often enough that brands disappeared for some time - and then they were revived at some point of time. I hope together with Edward J that at some point of time some family member wants to do his/her own thing - and then maybe the brand GC is a nice goodbye-gift for that person...

In 5 years the brand will be 225 years old... I hope that we see a Vintage 2022 from Gould Campbell...!!!

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Rune EG
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Rune EG »

Christian, you wrote:
"But as I understand the brand GC will not totally disappear. Yes, the global distribution will be limited, as SFE focuses on other brands - but GC Ports will be still be placed strategically into specific markets."

Could you please elaborate on this statement?
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Christian Gollnick »

Hi Rune: That's what I have heard from somebody affiliated with SFE... but because it was a personal email I will not give the name away.
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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Eric Menchen »

I have no idea on this, but I could see the name living kind of like Quarles Harris, which I don't see any more except for at Trader Joe's.

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Re: Save the grapes: Gould Campbell

Post by Andy Velebil »

I've only heard rumors and whatnot about these brands. And those rumors seem to change from time to time. As such, I take it SFE hasn't totally decided what to do with them and is keeping them in their back wheelhouse until they do.
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