Croft Pink

[Bradley Bogdan]

So I finally tried this Port, and all I had as a reaction was, very simply, why???

Humor aside, while I love that someone did something new for the first time in ages in the Douro (other than making dry wines, or garrafierra), this is not at all a good wine, and frankly is a poor mixer with tonic as well. Is there anyone that sees a redeeming side to this wine?

[Paul Fountain]

So I finally tried this Port, and all I had as a reaction was, very simply, why???

Humor aside, while I love that someone did something new for the first time in ages in the Douro (other than making dry wines, or garrafierra), this is not at all a good wine, and frankly is a poor mixer with tonic as well. Is there anyone that sees a redeeming side to this wine?

Lets just say you (as well as the rest of us on this board) aren't the market they are aiming at with this one!

[Tom Archer]

When the first Rose ports were launched, they didn't just affront the traditions of port - they were downright awful wines.

Since then, one or two producers have managed to produce offerings that are dry enough not to be sickly, and lack the 'off-notes' that characterised the earliest products. But they are almost all presented in bottles that have pink glitzy labels that might look OK in a gay bar, but pretty much nowhere else.

Bottom line: Real men don't drink pink..

[Andy Velebil]

When the first Rose ports were launched, they didn't just affront the traditions of port - they were downright awful wines.

Since then, one or two producers have managed to produce offerings that are dry enough not to be sickly, and lack the 'off-notes' that characterised the earliest products. But they are almost all presented in bottles that have pink glitzy labels that might look OK in a gay bar, but pretty much nowhere else.

Bottom line: Real men don't drink pink..

Please tell us exactly which ones are in "glitzy labels". Because I've not seen one that is in any different packaging than any other Port of it's given type. Or perhaps you just aren't manly enough to wear pink.

And they don't "affront the traditions" of Port. Heaven forbid the Port industry move forward and instead stay stuck in a rut of yesteryear. Just because you or some others don't like something doesn't mean it should not be made. I can't stand that type of thinking, it's archaic.

[John M.]

When the first Rose ports were launched, they didn't just affront the traditions of port - they were downright awful wines.

Since then, one or two producers have managed to produce offerings that are dry enough not to be sickly, and lack the 'off-notes' that characterised the earliest products. But they are almost all presented in bottles that have pink glitzy labels that might look OK in a gay bar, but pretty much nowhere else.

Bottom line: Real men don't drink pink..

Please tell us exactly which ones are in "glitzy labels". Because I've not seen one that is in any different packaging than any other Port of it's given type. Or perhaps you just aren't manly enough to wear pink.

And they don't "affront the traditions" of Port. Heaven forbid the Port industry move forward and instead stay stuck in a rut of yesteryear. Just because you or some others don't like something doesn't mean it should not be made. I can't stand that type of thinking, it's archaic.

The bigger question really is "Is there enough demand so that Croft is making a profit selling this and is the demand sustainable?" We may not choose to buy it or drink it, but others might. If it makes Croft and its parent more solvent and fiscally sound, then they can continue make my Port unabated.

[Andy Velebil]

John
Good question. I'd assume they are at least breaking even. As I don't see Adrian continuing with a product that is perpetually losing money. And I don't think we'd see so many other companies making them if they weren't selling. It's like basic cheap Ports, we here on FLTOP don't buy them but companies sell millions of bottles a year of them. That means lots of people do buy them.


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[Glenn E.]

I don't see Adrian continuing with a product that is perpetually losing money.

This, really, 1000x over. Adrian is possibly the most "business-like" person across all of the major companies. He might allow a product to lose money for a year... but not consistently. If he could make more money using those grapes for some other purpose, he'd do it in an instant. Croft Pink is clearly selling well enough that he considers it a reasonable product to continue making.

It's really like Andy said... we're Port nerds and we don't drink a lot of pink, or basic ruby, or basic tawny. Yet those last two, at least, are the cornerstones of all the big producers. MILLIONS of bottles are sold yearly that we never even think about. Pink is really just another product that's generally (but not always!) below our collective radar.

[Eric Menchen]

It's like basic cheap Ports, we here on FLTOP don't buy them but companies sell millions of bottles a year of them. That means lots of people do buy them.

Maybe they are selling it in France

[Bradley Bogdan]

When the first Rose ports were launched, they didn't just affront the traditions of port - they were downright awful wines.

Since then, one or two producers have managed to produce offerings that are dry enough not to be sickly, and lack the 'off-notes' that characterised the earliest products. But they are almost all presented in bottles that have pink glitzy labels that might look OK in a gay bar, but pretty much nowhere else.

Bottom line: Real men don't drink pink..

Please tell us exactly which ones are in "glitzy labels". Because I've not seen one that is in any different packaging than any other Port of it's given type. Or perhaps you just aren't manly enough to wear pink.

And they don't "affront the traditions" of Port. Heaven forbid the Port industry move forward and instead stay stuck in a rut of yesteryear. Just because you or some others don't like something doesn't mean it should not be made. I can't stand that type of thinking, it's archaic.

While I wouldn't necessarily call the Croft Pink packaging "glitzy", it's definitely not packaged similarly to any other Port I've seen. It's packaged much as you'd expect from a trendy Provençal Rose with the curvy bottle, circular label, etc. Probably a good idea to make a clear brake visually from the standard Port offerings, even if it's just to ward off Port lovers .


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[Tom Archer]

This, really, 1000x over. Adrian is possibly the most "business-like" person across all of the major companies. He might allow a product to lose money for a year... but not consistently. If he could make more money using those grapes for some other purpose, he'd do it in an instant. Croft Pink is clearly selling well enough that he considers it a reasonable product to continue making.

Taken in isolation, the Pink products must be raking in enough to warrant continued production.

However, one should never underestimate the ignorance of the consumer, or their ability to take a lifelong dislike to a class of products from a single encounter.

How often does one come across people who summarily state that they 'don't like port' - only to discover that it was on the basis of a glass of warm stale ruby in a curry house that followed an indulgent stag party, after which they suffered a mighty hangover the following morning. They remember starting out drinking Stella and ending on Port, but completely forget the seven rounds of Jager-bombs that preceded their trip to the Indian..

Put another way, I feel that Pink has too much capacity to put people off Port, and does not naturally attract them to try other styles. If it sells, then great commerce - but don't market it as Port..

[Andy Velebil]

Brad,
Actually, when you look at Pink/Rose Port packaging, it's very similar to other Ports. Ruby's often use red on their labels, white's often use green, and Pink/Rose use pink. All use clear glass bottles to show the contents.

Tom,
I disagree. Most people who start out drinking wine or Port don't start at the top. Most start at the bottom and most stay there. A small amount will graduate up, on a rare occasion to something mid-level, like buying a bottle of LBV and rarely a VP. It's a great bit of fiction that people who try a low end wine/port will hate it and never come back. Most never leave that category. There is a reason why markets contain about 90% of their wines for sale that are priced around $15 and below.

[Eric Menchen]

How often does one come across people who summarily state that they 'don't like port' - only to discover that it was on the basis of a glass of warm stale ruby in a curry house that followed an indulgent stag party, after which they suffered a mighty hangover the following morning. They remember starting out drinking Stella and ending on Port, but completely forget the seven rounds of Jager-bombs that preceded their trip to the Indian.

I have never come across such a person on this side of the pond. But for the equivalent here, replace
warm stale ruby <- New York's Taylor Port
Stella <- Rolling Rock, National Bohemian, ...
curry house <- Hmmm. I would think a dive diner might be involved, but that wouldn't serve the Taylor, so maybe the equivalent is the convenience store/gas station that sells snacks and liquor.

And while not common, I have encountered some of these 'don't like port' people.

[Glenn E.]

How often does one come across people who summarily state that they 'don't like port' - only to discover that it was on the basis of a glass of warm stale ruby in a curry house that followed an indulgent stag party, after which they suffered a mighty hangover the following morning. They remember starting out drinking Stella and ending on Port, but completely forget the seven rounds of Jager-bombs that preceded their trip to the Indian..

I come across people who "don't like port" all the time, and I fix them. Generally, though, it is nothing like the scenario you describe. Rather it's people who tried a Texas port, or a Washington port, or a California port, or an Australian port, or... you get the idea. They didn't like any of those, but when I present them with even something as simple as a real LBV they change their minds. US ports tend to be harsh (to my taste), simple, and overtly sweet. Australian ports (aka "stickies") are thick, brown, and often very sweet. A real Portuguese Port is much better balanced and has far more characteristics that are similar to red wine, so people are easily converted.

[John M.]

I know a Brit who as a young man over indulged in some very nasty, cheap Port to everlasting effect. He will not drink it--I have reasoned and coaxed to no avail.

[Tom Archer]

I gave you a very British scenario, but see that it can be translated into an American one without much difficulty. However, in the US, having got past the first hurdle of explaining that wino 'port' is not the same as 'Porto' - you then have the problem of explaining that this upmarket classy product also has a 'bad girl' in the family..

I don't really buy Andy's analysis. People move quite readily between low budget and higher budget wine buying when they have not only the funds but also the confidence to do so. Many who could afford high end wine, elect to drink at the 'cheapest-but-one' level because they fear being embarrassed, and assure their friends that fine wines would be 'wasted' on them. Yet most of us know that given a blind flight of wines, even the least educated artisan can readily tell the good from the bad and ugly.

Pink Port is not a rite of passage towards 'real' Port - it is a standalone product. Would it succeed if it were not able to call itself 'Port' ? - I doubt it. Does it enhance the reputation of port as a class of products as a whole? - No.

I therefore stand by my view that it is an essentially parasitic and negative influence on the Port trade in general. If it is marginally profitable in its own right, I very much doubt that offsets the negative influence that it bestows on other Port products..

[Bradley Bogdan]

Brad,
Actually, when you look at Pink/Rose Port packaging, it's very similar to other Ports. Ruby's often use red on their labels, white's often use green, and Pink/Rose use pink. All use clear glass bottles to show the contents.

Tom,
I disagree. Most people who start out drinking wine or Port don't start at the top. Most start at the bottom and most stay there. A small amount will graduate up, on a rare occasion to something mid-level, like buying a bottle of LBV and rarely a VP. It's a great bit of fiction that people who try a low end wine/port will hate it and never come back. Most never leave that category. There is a reason why markets contain about 90% of their wines for sale that are priced around $15 and below.

I guess I'm missing how a bottle like this:

looks much like any other Port out there. Sure, a minority of Ports do bottle in clear bottles, but most are in squat clear bottles and none are in the swooping hip dry rose shape of the Croft. Also, those in clear bottles are dark enough where they're brown or effectively black, not giving a particularly striking color compared to a rich shade of pink. The clear bottles aside, the large majority of Port still comes in very traditional looking Bordeaux shape bottles with dark glass, making the contrast even more stark. Unless they put it in a can or a bag-in-box, I think that's about as different a presentation from the general expectation as they could have made it.




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[Andy Velebil]

So it looks like this glitzy flashy bottle...I rest my case.

[Andy Velebil]

And this looks SO much like a Port bottle....not, it looks like a whisky bottle. And OMG it has a glass closure instead of a cork.

[Bradley Bogdan]

And this looks SO much like a Port bottle....not, it looks like a whisky bottle. And OMG it has a glass closure instead of a cork.

I'm not knocking TFP for the bottle design, it's attractive, but it's still decidedly not what anyone would associate with Port. As I also mentioned, that could be intentional, so that people don't reach for another Port and think it will be anything like Pink.

That a small Quinta releases their very limited white tawnies in a traditional half bottle with a shiny label, or that Sandeman has apparently pushed the envelope with their latest release (which hasn't shown up in Texas yet, thanks for sharing the pic), doesn't make Croft Pink look more like what most people expect a Port to look like in bottle. Nor do those designs, or the clear bottle more modern efforts of Grahams tawnies, CLA and Qta de la Rosa make up anywhere close to the majority of Ports on a shelf. They are signs that innovation in design is progressing, not that Croft Pink looks anything like any other Port out there.

Don't confuse my dislike of and confusion about Croft Pink with Tom's dislike of all innovation .


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[Tom Archer]

Don't confuse my dislike of and confusion about Croft Pink with Tom's dislike of all innovation

The trouble with innovation in Port, is that far more often than not, the law of unintended consequences kicks in and everyone goes back to doing things the way they did before..

- Clever ideas and Port don't mix well..