DAVID GUIMARAENS - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

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Andy Velebil
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Andy Velebil »

Guimaraens wrote:
Peter W. Meek wrote:This came up in a different Topic, and I thought you might know the reasoning behind it.

Vintage port is almost always decanted. Instead of the traditional strongly-shouldered bottle, why isn't it bottled in a long-taper bottle like some German wines? They can be poured incrementally with no incoming bubbles to disturb the wine.

I am sure that by now, the answer is: Tradition. But all traditions started for some reason.

My guess: because VP is stored for long times in the bottle, it needs a bottle with the longest possible cylinder to keep it stable in large stacks. Or, the shoulder may be counted on to catch sediment as it is decanted.


Peter,
your guess is exactly the reasoning I would give for the format of a Port bottle, where the traditional stacks easily take up to 6000 bottles per Bin in many situations.
David
Since this is hard to visualize, I though I'd show a picture of what David was talking about when he says a bin can easily take up to 6000 bottles. Here's a picture of Stewart in front a bin (sorry for it being the competitors bin David, I didn't have a TFP bin picture). You can see how tall and wide it is, and it's about 5-6 feet deep. There is an inch or two of sand on the ground and that is it. I wonder how much pressure is exerted on those bottom bottles?
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by John Trombley »

Assuming this stack is 25 bottles in height, and that each bottle masses 1 kg (2.54 lb), and that the contact area between the bottom bottle and the one just above it is eight inches by i/32 inch (reasonable assumptions, I think), and neglecting the mass of the shims, I'd guess that over an area of 1/4 square inches and a force of 63.5 pounds, a pressure of 254 pounds per square inch (25 x 2.54 x 1/4) is being exerted on the bottle. Of course shifting the bottles so that each bottle on the bottom row but one contacts two bottles in the row above (with the loss of one bottle of storage), the force is reduced to 127 pounds per square inch. (25 x 2.54 x 1/4 divided by 2). Twenty five and not twenty four because the bottom bottle adds an upward force (reaction against gravity) to the contact pressure of the 24 bottles above it.

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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Peter W. Meek »

1.35 kilo is a better average for full bottles of port.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Kurt Wieneke wrote:Hi David,
Thanks for your insightful reply on my previous question about the Fonseca Guimaraens Vintage Port. You've mentioned the quality and approachability of the 1997 ports. Could you please share with us some of your recommendations for 1997 ports?

Regards,
Kurt Wieneke


Kurt,
the 1997 I know best are naturally the Fonseca and Taylor, and both are very much true to their house style, I have not tasted others recently. As far as when to drink them, I would recomend holding on to them for at least another 5 - 6 years before approaching them again. These will be long livers for sure.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Andy Velebil »

David,
Thanks for your all your answers this week and for taking time out of your very busy schedule to do this, it is very much appreciated. Before you leave us I have one more question.

The Taylor's, Panascal, and Croft blogs which were started earlier this year give solid information about your products. Yet, to be honest, it lacked regular updates during harvest. IIRC, only the Panascal Blog briefly mentioned harvest had started. Something I, and I know others, were hoping would happen was some regular harvest progress reports, however brief. Is there any plans to post regular harvest updates next year? If not, I do hope we here at FTLOP can persuade you to change your minds. These harvest updates are very important for us Port nerds [beg.gif]
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Andy Velebil wrote:David,
Thanks for your all your answers this week and for taking time out of your very busy schedule to do this, it is very much appreciated. Before you leave us I have one more question.

The Taylor's, Panascal, and Croft blogs which were started earlier this year give solid information about your products. Yet, to be honest, it lacked regular updates during harvest. IIRC, only the Panascal Blog briefly mentioned harvest had started. Something I, and I know others, were hoping would happen was some regular harvest progress reports, however brief. Is there any plans to post regular harvest updates next year? If not, I do hope we here at FTLOP can persuade you to change your minds. These harvest updates are very important for us Port nerds [beg.gif]

Andy,
I have enjoyed participating in the Forum this week and it is an honour to have been the first Portmaker to be invited as a Guest Host. I am a very lucky guy to be responsible for a magnificent group of people from the vineyard to the tasting room, who all have a tremendous amount of knowledge and passion for making the Ports we make. We make a product which is unique and has the quality and capacity to age better than almost any other wine in the world. We work in a beautiful and challenging region, with 300 years of tradition behind us, but during the last 30 years we have re-invented our viticulture and winemaking, but for us, always with a tremendous respect for what the traditional practices and empirical knowledge taught us.

We are very lucky to have many consumers who enjoy and have a passion for our Ports, and that is the best motivation we can have. We are also lucky to have Roy and everyone who actively participate in :ftlop: so dedicated to Port and other fortified wines.

I am not the most active participater in these Forums and other internet initiatives you mentioned for professional and personal time limitations, however I will strive to visit :ftlop: more often. I have many colleagues in the company who do participate and I am sure will be developing further our blogs and websites.

I am available for the rest of the weekend if you desire to maintain the Forum open for a little longer.

thankyou all, and keep enjoying our Ports.
David Fonseca Guimaraens
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Paul_B »

Maybe I'm too late,

one of my questions was already asked (Colheitas?) so I'll ask my second question.

With 100+ bottlings/brands/labels of VP 2007, what do you think is the short term and long term impact to the trade and to the consumer? Is the IDVP too easy or is it getting that easy to make VP with the technology and knowledge out there?

Thanks for sharing the passion
/Paul
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Andy Velebil »

In thanks to David joining us and some earlier questions and replies, I've pulled a 1992 Fonseca Vintage Port from the cellar to open later this week.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by John Trombley »

Peter W. Meek wrote:1.35 kilo is a better average for full bottles of port.
85.725 pounds, then, and 342.9 pounds per square inch, or 171.45 pounds per square inch if stacked in the more conservative second way.

Amazing when you think that this is like balancing a platform holding 2 average sized men balancing on a surface about the size of the sharp edge of a large axe or adze.

Any others of my assumptions very far off? There are two or three others.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Roy Hersh »

As this is David's last day to answer questions, I wanted to personally thank him for the many hours he's invested this week; as well as the brilliant responses to so many well thought out probes by the :ftlop: 's participants. [notworthy.gif]

I am pleased that these Q&A sessions remain archived for future new members to come in and learn from as well.

David, we sincerely appreciate all you have done to explain and educate us on a plethora of fantastic topics, especially being so busy right before the holidays. :clap: :clap: :clap:


I hope you and your family have a warm and very Merry Christmas and a healthy & fulfilling 2010! [cheers.gif]
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Paul_B wrote:Maybe I'm too late,

one of my questions was already asked (Colheitas?) so I'll ask my second question.

With 100+ bottlings/brands/labels of VP 2007, what do you think is the short term and long term impact to the trade and to the consumer? Is the IDVP too easy or is it getting that easy to make VP with the technology and knowledge out there?

Thanks for sharing the passion
/Paul
Paul,
there are several reason why there are so many Vintage Ports in 2007:

1. Traditional houses have launched specialised labels such as Talors Vargellas Vinha Velha, Vesuvio Capela, etc
2. Some Port houses have bottled a Classic and Single Quinta in the same year.
3. There are many more small producers who, although their focus is table wine, also release a Vintage Port.
4. Some coops have also produced a Vintage

The IVDP continues to maintain very high standards for Vintage, this should not be a concern for the consumer. The fact that there is a lot more choice means there is a lot of enthusiasm behind making a Vintage Port. This cannot be bad.
For us, it just means we have to keep our standards at their highest level if we want to stay at the forefront of Vintage. That cannot be bad for the consumer either. I also believe it gives back more character to the Industry which has lost out from the selling out of several Port shippers.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Eric Menchen »

Roy Hersh wrote:... I wanted to personally thank him for the many hours he's invested this week; as well as the brilliant responses to so many well thought out probes by the :ftlop: 's participants. [notworthy.gif] ... David, we sincerely appreciate all you have done to explain and educate us on a plethora of fantastic topics, especially being so busy right before the holidays. :clap: :clap: :clap: ... [cheers.gif]
Hear, hear! I didn't have any great questions but enjoyed reading the entire thread. Thank-you David. Muito obrigado! :thumbsup:
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Glenn E. »

David,

I have one last question that crops up here from time to time, and you would definitely be the person to know the answer. (As I recall, Andy was quoting what someone else had said at a tasting in L.A. in this quote.) Could you clarify this for us?
Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote: Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste.

These are a blend of mulitple vintages of Colheita's that when combined have an average age of 10,20,30,or over 40 years. Some producers final blends are closer in age to 15 years, or 37 years, as they use more older vintages in their blend. But by law the minimum average age has to be at least 10,20...etc.
I've heard many times that this is not true, and I've heard it from people who really ought to know. What I've been told is that the label on a Tawny with an indication of age has nothing to do with the actual age of the Port, but rather indicates the age profile that they're aiming for. Thus a 20-yr old is supposed to represent what a 20-yr old Port should taste like, but it does not mean that the Port is actually 20 years old.

I've heard that in most cases the Port is, in fact, at least as old (on average) as what the label says but that in some cases it is significantly older and that there's nothing preventing it from being younger. For example the Kopke 10-yr old is an average of about 14 years old according to Fernando, the master blender for Kopke.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Glenn E. wrote:David,
Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote: Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste.

These are a blend of mulitple vintages of Colheita's that when combined have an average age of 10,20,30,or over 40 years. Some producers final blends are closer in age to 15 years, or 37 years, as they use more older vintages in their blend. But by law the minimum average age has to be at least 10,20...etc.
I've heard many times that this is not true, and I've heard it from people who really ought to know. What I've been told is that the label on a Tawny with an indication of age has nothing to do with the actual age of the Port, but rather indicates the age profile that they're aiming for. Thus a 20-yr old is supposed to represent what a 20-yr old Port should taste like, but it does not mean that the Port is actually 20 years old.

I've heard that in most cases the Port is, in fact, at least as old (on average) as what the label says but that in some cases it is significantly older and that there's nothing preventing it from being younger. For example the Kopke 10-yr old is an average of about 14 years old according to Fernando, the master blender for Kopke.

Glenn,
What is important to take into consideration with the discussion of the average age Tawnies is that this designation was created many years ago to help guide the consumer. Half a century ago the blended tawnies would have a brand name, but with no indication of age at all. For the consumer who was familiar with that brand, that was not a problem, however for someone who wasn't thay had no idea what was in the bottle until they opened it.
These are exactly an age orientation, the shipper should be free to put together the blend that he feels will best honour his brand, if it is older that is not a problem, if it is younger, it will inevitably not pass the scrutiny of the IVDP at the time of registration.
The art of the blender is in consistently bottling a blend which year after year has a distinctive house style. Once a cosumer gets familiar with these blends, he expects this consistency.
It is interesting to note that Sherry has started the same designation for its Amontillados and Olorosos, have created a 10 year old and 20 year old designation.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Andy Velebil »

David,
Many thanks for not throwing me under the bus on that last one, the Super Bock's on me next time :wink: :lol: :lol:

And again I wanted to thank you for spending an entire week here with us at :ftlop: I assure you it has been most educational and very much appreciated. [notworthy.gif]
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Andy Velebil wrote:David,
Many thanks for not throwing me under the bus on that last one, the Super Bock's on me next time :wink: :lol: :lol:

And again I wanted to thank you for spending an entire week here with us at :ftlop: I assure you it has been most educational and very much appreciated. [notworthy.gif]

Well Andy, my F.C. Porto has just lost 1-0 against Benfica, and my eldest son Sam (16 years old) is still swearing. We can't complain as we have won the last 4 championships, and Benfica hasn't beaten us for 4 years. This is not a good note to sign off on, but life IS much more than a game of football.

I have enjoyed participating in this forum, and to be able to participate with people who enjoy all of Port, be it ours, or from other shippers. For those who have visited Portugal before will understand that, beyond the natural rivalry in the market, there is a very good and strong relationship between shippers, and that the most serious in our trade have been dedicated to this magnificent product for generations.
For those who have not been to Portugal, well, you will never be comfortable with yourself until you do. The country is small but full of history and very diverse from North to South. Visiting the Douro Valley will take your breath away, and give a different meaning to every glass of Port you drink afterwards. Porto and Vila Nova de Gaia have an extraordinary charm, and Porto is considered the last historic city of Europe still to be discovered.

The Port trade faces many challenges, not least of which having to live in an outdated over-regulated industry, which as a result of lack of political will, and agreement across the industry, is doing its best to kill itself.
It saddens me deeply that however good Douro table wines are, and the best ones are being produced by very good friends of mine with great skill, the viability of the Port industry is at check, and shippers and farmers are giving up on it for economic reasons. We are the last stubborn shippers who continue 100% dedicated to Port, but we urgently need reform of the industry.
These words will not be welcome here, particularly when read by locals (and institutions), however my belief and dedication to Port would not allow me not ventilate this opinion.
Over the last 10 years I have been constantly bombarded with the question of why we do not start producing a Douro table wine? The reality is that as a winemaker in a company of our size, there is only room to dedicate to one. The viticulture and approach is different for each. Secondly, faced with one Quinta to produce both, how could you ever make the decision as to where to use the best grapes? Don't forget that the best Douro red wines are being produced from very old Port vineyards (random mix of grape varieties, with almost no Touriga Nacional).
If for economic reasons, our company was forced to produce Douro table wine, the only way to do it would be to dedicate a Quinta for this purpose, and find a great table wine winemaker to make them (please do not take from these words that this is on the cards, I am just trying to be rational!)

I would also like to finnish wth a particular recognition and tribute to someone who is so important in the production of our Ports, and that is our senior Viticulturist Antonio Magalhães. A winemaker is only as good as the grapes he uses. Antonio joined our company in 1992, 2 years after I came home. We have worked together on the re-designing of Douro viticulture, and travelled extensivly to feed off other experiences. The two of us have worked very closely over this extraordinary period of change, and most of the key decisions taken during the harvest for each vineyard and blending of grapes are taken together.
His knowledge of viticulture and the Douro Valley is next to none, and it is our dedication together that intends to ensure that Vintage Port will achieve its greatest level ever.

FOR THE LOVE OF PORT

David Fonseca Guimaraens
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