DAVID GUIMARAENS - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

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Guimaraens
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Marco D. wrote:David,

I have a son that was born in 2005, a vintage that was not generally declared. What are your picks for the most age-worthy port of that vintage (whether within the TFP or outside)?

Marco,
2005 was a hot and dry year, but there is one Vintage I particularly recomend, and that is the Quinta da Roeda 2005. It is stunning. Obviously I also highly recomend the Qta Vargellas and the Guimaraens. Unfortunately I have not done enough tastings of other houses 2005's to pass a fair judgement.

David
Last edited by Guimaraens on Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Andy Velebil wrote:David,

I have a two part question;

1- Since you mentioned the Trade is now able to source better quality brandy can you explain how it is made, where it comes from, and without giving away any trade secrets, the process you use to select which brandies you use in which products? For example, I was told Croft Pink uses a very expensive brandy that is also used for Vintage Ports.

2- Obviously using a very expensive brandy isn't cost effective for basic inexpensive Ports. What is the process you use during harvest to determine what brandy is used to fortify different batches of grapes? For example, are there certain Quinta's, or parcels of grapes, that you know generally don't make the grade for use in the upper end Ports so these are fortified using a less costly brandy. Or is it different every year based on the growing conditions, etc?

Many Thanks

Andy,
The spirit we require to fortify is a neutral grape spirit, with clean and correct sensory characters. Thsi requires good wines to be distilled, but it is not region dependant. The issue with Pink, as with White Ports is that you need a good quality spirit as these Ports do not have the tannin structure to overpower spirits with strong character. These spirits are inevitably much more expensive, but the results are worth it.

Our filosofy is to use the best quality spirits for all of the fruit we grow from our Quintas, which is where our Vintage Ports are sourced from. Every year we set out to make Vintage, as it is not wise to try and guess the quality of a year before all the Ports are made, every year we use a top quality spirit for our Quintas.
The work we have done with our spirit suppliers has enabled us to make enourmas advances in quality of the spirit we use, even at a more competitive price, so Ports like Bin 27 and LBV also benefit from much better quality spirits than were used 15-20 years ago. The benefits of a free market!!!

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

oscarquevedo wrote:David,

It has been a big pleasure to read your thoughts about Port Wine here in :ftlop: . I have been enjoying and learning a lot from your comments and I will take this opportunity to ask for your opinion about Port aging. Traditionally Port uses to age in the lodges located in Gaia. As until 1986 all Port should be shipped from Gaia, there was no other option besides this location for aging Port. But since 1986, when Port could start to be exported directly from the Douro, some Port houses have been moving their aging lodges from Gaia to the Douro valley. As we all know one of the first was Quinta do Noval.

Humidity and temperatures have always been the major justification to keep Port aging in Gaia, where the temperatures are not so extreme during the Summer and Winter and humidity is much higher in Gaia than in the Douro, contributing to a slower oxidizing process with lower rates of evaporation.

That said, I would like to ask you if you think more producers will move away from Gaia and set up their aging lodges for Port Wine in the Douro, specially in the higher parts of the valley, where the temperatures are lower. Or do you think Gaia is a better place for Port to age.

Oscar

Oscar,
congratulations for the work you have been doing with your Ports, I am glad that as a young Douro producer you have this dedication to Port, as opposed to everyone else who has turned their backs on Port to make table wine.
Your analysis on the different ageing conditions between Douro and gaia is correct, and the important point to make is that different syles of Tawny Port are made depending on the location/conditions of the lodges. There are several other factors such as blending approach, size of wood, racking practices, etc, but the location is a key factor.
Nowadays, there is the technology available that replicates the conditions of V.N.de Gaia in the Douro, particularly when we refer to humidity. This makes moving part of the ageing to the Douro a possibility, without radically cjanging styles.
Some houses have moved to the Douro for strategic reasons (Noval), others have moved only part of the ageing to the Douro due to the difficult working conditions in Gaia, and also because of the growth there has been over the last 20 years in the aged Tawny category.
I belive most Port houses will always maintain a significant part of the ageing in V.N. de Gaia as this is very much part of the character of the trade, and the Port trade would not be the same without an important presence in lodges in Vila Nova de Gaia. After all this is where this magnificent style of Port was created.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Marco D. »

David,

The few examples of white ports with extended barrel aging that I've tried have been wonderful and unique. Is there any chance that the TFP would try to enter into this niche port style?
Marco DeFreitas Connecticut, USA
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by John Trombley »

Guimaraens wrote: I believe your 1985's were clearly in the 2nd stage when you first opened them, and they are now in their 3rd stage. I would have no problems with holding on to your 1985's for longer.

David
Dear David,

Thanks for the time for your thorough answer. I could see how the aguardiente quality could have affected this wine thorough its earlier stages (I've tasted it with consistent notes every four or five years, tasting the first time soon after its release, until I'd say about the year 2000).

I'm not alone in my assessment of the '1985 Taylor. After I purchased it I came across a tasting note from Robert Parker, who seemed to be describing the same midpalate sensation that I was getting. I'm also not alone in noting some slow but definite improvement in its more current performance, as I've read on this and other fora. When you think that I paid about $29 a bottle equivalent for the case I bought of this, I'm far from unhappy with the money spent.

Your doctrine about stages reminds me very much of what many of us over the years have worked out about aging of very old German white wine [my other area of first interest], which to me has some parallels in its own way to vintage Porto. Especially it's true that wines whose acid structure consists of a good measure of malic acid seem to have a very awkward adolescence, and it can be a real mistake to buy bottles of something, forget it for five or ten years, and then drink it up because you thiink it's going over the hill. Often it's just getting its breath for its display of characteristics that would be quite difficult to predict would be there earlier. A typical range of ages for late-harvested Riesling from all but the southernmost regions, for example, would be young up to three or four years, then about five through 13 to 15 years as adolescents, then 15 plus until a good old age--often fifty years or more for the best wines. Strange it is that this may be true when you think about the very different composition of port and, say, a Mosel Riesling Beerenauslese.

I'm now looking at about a half-case plus of the 2000 Taylor VP and will take what you said into consideration when trying to keep my hands off it for a few more years.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my question.

If I'm allowed to make one other comment, I'd like to compliment you on this decade's Taylor LBVPs. I had found myself rather disappointed with the late-90s wines up to and including the 1999, but each I've had since has shown a real turnaround and improvement in quality, starting with the 2000, to talk in generalities. Congratulations!
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by John Trombley »

If I may make yet another comment, David (which requires no reply, actually), I'm amazed that people like yourself can take extremely young examples of many, many wines during a work session and make some sense of their style and quality, and fit that information into the rest of the data that has been acquired.

In my mind, Port is a wine to be appreciated slowly over, if possible, several hours at night after dinner, and the huge amount of sensation that a glass of this astonishing liquid can yield up when given a little time is remarkable. However, I'm sure each bottle of port we open, even of the VP, requires multiple decisions on selection and blending, and sometimes dozens of them, and those very quickly under the pressure of time and decision.

To take these perhaps dozens of samples of young Portos at a single sitting and make some reasonable assessment of them concerning their place in your complex market and many bottlings is a feat that must take an exhaustive and exhausting amount of concentration and must be very hard work. I believe that persons who have and practice this skill have made the modern production of fine wine and spirits possible, because without them we would be disappointed almost every time we opened up a bottle. In other words, we appreciate you and your team and your colleagues elsewhere!

Best, John Trombley
Last edited by John Trombley on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Derek T. »

David,

Your Croft 2004 Unfiltered LBV has recently appeared in the UK in what appears to be vast quantities of half bottles. I have indulged in 6 or 7 of these already and have been very impressed with the quality but slightly surprised at how approachable it is. I have been unable to resist Tesco's recent discount and now have 50 half bottles of this lovely juice and was wondering what you think is the potential for ageing? Did you blend this wine with the intention that it should be enjoyed young or do you feel it would benefit from 5 or 10 years in the bottle?

Derek
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Peter W. Meek »

John Trombley wrote:. ... In other words, we appreciate you and your team ....
Amen.
--Pete
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Dale B. »

Dear David,

My wife and I love port and all things port. We have a cellar and would pose two questions to you:

I am 60 and have a son, 31, who also enjoys port. What should we lay down both for me now and as a comfort into my old age as well as for my son to enjoy after we're gone?

Also, what do you think of the possibility of introductory level ports being dispensed in bladders? We've seen this in Australia and wonder if more people might be introduced to port if they didn't have to worry about the problems associated with an open bottle. We thoroughly enjoyed a vintage tasting at a high-volume bar in Las Vegas- it was delightful to sample these ports, but we have been disappointed in vintage ports served at some high-end restaurants because they had been opened too long. Possibly they would benefit from either bladder system or a nitrogen preserving system...I think you understand my question. Perhaps this would be a great benefit to the port industry as relates to bars and restaurants. Thank you for your time and your contributions to the advancement of port. Thanks, Dale and Laurie Bolt
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Marco D. wrote:David,

The few examples of white ports with extended barrel aging that I've tried have been wonderful and unique. Is there any chance that the TFP would try to enter into this niche port style?
Marco,
aged white Ports are magnificent, and it is an example of innovation in the trade that now allows this category to be distinguished as 10 or 20 year old. We do not have the stocks of old white Ports to start a new line on its own, so at the moment there are no plans.
I have worked in the past with 30 year old white Ports which are fabulous.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

If I'm allowed to make one other comment, I'd like to compliment you on this decade's Taylor LBVPs. I had found myself rather disappointed with the late-90s wines up to and including the 1999, but each I've had since has shown a real turnaround and improvement in quality, starting with the 2000, to talk in generalities. Congratulations![/quote]


John,
I very much appreciate your comments regarding the LBV's. There are many reasons why the 1990's was a complicated category in terms of quality, and from 2000 forward the LBV's have been getting consistently much better. This is no coincidence, the introduction on a large scale of our Piston fermenters as from 2000 and the work we have been doing with our grape suppliers has had its biggest impact on LBV's and Reserve Rubies, where by achieving the quality of the lagar method, Port across all of our range has benefited.
To me this has been one of the greatest achievements of the last 15 years. It is easy to focus on Vintage, but these styles of Port were the most affected by the changes that occured in our region in the 1980's and 1990's.
David
Last edited by Guimaraens on Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Derek T. wrote:David,

Your Croft 2004 Unfiltered LBV has recently appeared in the UK in what appears to be vast quantities of half bottles. I have indulged in 6 or 7 of these already and have been very impressed with the quality but slightly surprised at how approachable it is. I have been unable to resist Tesco's recent discount and now have 50 half bottles of this lovely juice and was wondering what you think is the potential for ageing? Did you blend this wine with the intention that it should be enjoyed young or do you feel it would benefit from 5 or 10 years in the bottle?

Derek

A perfect example of where people who pay attention get a good deal. The Unfiltered croft LBV is delicious, and very Croft in style. We make LBV's to be approachable at bottling, and that is where I believe they are best enjoyed. The advantage of being unfiltered, and for the consumer who is more familiar with Port, and does not mind some sediment, is that by not filtering more depth and astringency are left in the Port. This makes their enjoyment after dinner even greater.
Although not intended to be put aside for ageing, any full bodied style of Port which has enough structure will develop in the bottle if set aside. I generally don't recomend it as there are so many magnificent Single Quinta vinateg Ports at remarkably good value for money.
David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Dale B. wrote:Dear David,

I am 60 and have a son, 31, who also enjoys port. What should we lay down both for me now and as a comfort into my old age as well as for my son to enjoy after we're gone?

Also, what do you think of the possibility of introductory level ports being dispensed in bladders? We've seen this in Australia and wonder if more people might be introduced to port if they didn't have to worry about the problems associated with an open bottle. We thoroughly enjoyed a vintage tasting at a high-volume bar in Las Vegas- it was delightful to sample these ports, but we have been disappointed in vintage ports served at some high-end restaurants because they had been opened too long. Possibly they would benefit from either bladder system or a nitrogen preserving system...I think you understand my question. Perhaps this would be a great benefit to the port industry as relates to bars and restaurants. Thank you for your time and your contributions to the advancement of port. Thanks, Dale and Laurie Bolt


Dale,
As far as laying down Vintage Ports for yourself, from the eighties I would recomend gettinghold of 1985 Fonseca which we are still releasing some each year into the market. Then I would select Ports from the 1990's. The Classic Vintages are not easy to get hold of, but if you come across 1997's, these are fabulous, and generally underrated. I would also look out for Single Quintas from 1995, 1996 and 1998. These are now showing good bottle maturity, and will continue to develop very finely over the next 10-15 years.
The 2000 decade is proving to be very good overall. 2000and 2001 were two very good years side by side. There are plenty of 2003's still left in the market, and in many places available at a good price, as shops are making room for our most recent declaration, the 2007's.

Bladders for Port. Convenient but risky. I live with the tragic image that Port styles from Australia got in their own country from being served in such a way. There is a lot of work to be done in educating the restaurant trade in guaranteeing the freshness of Ports and wines they serve, and yes the nitrogen system is definitely better for them. Sometimes restaurants tend to have to many bottles of Port being served by the glass, rather than fewer and rotating these more often. With Aged Tawnies, this is not an issue, but for Vintage it is.
David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Peter W. Meek »

This came up in a different Topic, and I thought you might know the reasoning behind it.

Vintage port is almost always decanted. Instead of the traditional strongly-shouldered bottle, why isn't it bottled in a long-taper bottle like some German wines? They can be poured incrementally with no incoming bubbles to disturb the wine.

I am sure that by now, the answer is: Tradition. But all traditions started for some reason.

My guess: because VP is stored for long times in the bottle, it needs a bottle with the longest possible cylinder to keep it stable in large stacks. Or, the shoulder may be counted on to catch sediment as it is decanted.
--Pete
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Frederick Blais »

You have a 100% organic plot of vines at Panascal. Can you elaborate on the differences you have find on the final product compared to the other ports made from your regular growing techniques?

Any plans to increase the size of your organic viticulture and eventually make a VP or include the juice in your VPs?
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Peter W. Meek wrote:This came up in a different Topic, and I thought you might know the reasoning behind it.

Vintage port is almost always decanted. Instead of the traditional strongly-shouldered bottle, why isn't it bottled in a long-taper bottle like some German wines? They can be poured incrementally with no incoming bubbles to disturb the wine.

I am sure that by now, the answer is: Tradition. But all traditions started for some reason.

My guess: because VP is stored for long times in the bottle, it needs a bottle with the longest possible cylinder to keep it stable in large stacks. Or, the shoulder may be counted on to catch sediment as it is decanted.


Peter,
your guess is exactly the reasoning I would give for the format of a Port bottle, where the traditional stacks easily take up to 6000 bottles per Bin in many situations.
David
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Roy Hersh
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Roy Hersh »

David,

Back in 2003, when a bunch of us American Wine Journos came to Porto & the Douro, (when you met my wife & Taylor at 7 mos.) one of the participants was Brian Dorsk. He asked me if I would be able to please post his questions here for you:

"Inasmuch as I shall not be able to attend the forum (although I would love to), I'd like to ask David Guimaraens a few questions."

1. What is the current average production (in # of bottles) of vintage Port in declared years? Has the decline in purchases in recent years continued?

2. Having spoken at length with Adrian Bridge in May of 2008 at the Hong Kong Wine Expo, he mentioned that he continued to feel that the firm still had no plans to produce table wines. Has this view changed at all - does David have differing views?

3. I have a strong feeling that the current method of planting single varietals in new Douro region plantings results in shorter longevity if the wines (vintage Ports) versus the old traditional field blend plantings inasmuch as harvest brings in the grapes at virtually the same time with what would reasonably guarantee some unevenness in ripeness. I feel, as does as another Port producer, that this improves longevity and perhaps excellence in the declared vintage wines versus the newer single varietal plantings. What comment or opinion does David offer on my supposition?


Again, thank you on behalf of Brian!
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Frederick Blais wrote:You have a 100% organic plot of vines at Panascal. Can you elaborate on the differences you have find on the final product compared to the other ports made from your regular growing techniques?

Any plans to increase the size of your organic viticulture and eventually make a VP or include the juice in your VPs?

Frederick,
my father and I converted our first blocks of vineyard to organic viticulture at Panascal in 1992, and together with Antonio Magalhães, our master viticulturist, we have used the knowledge gained from these vineyards to not only change the way we manage all of our other vineyards, but it also has led us to design new vineyards which are much more sustainable. At Panacal we have increased our area being managed organically 5-fold.
I cannot say that an organic vineyards produces a better Port than a vineyard being managed under sustainable viticulture, however, it does make a difference in helping turn young vineyards to mature vineyards quicker. Our experience is that these vineyards find their natural balance quicker than a conventional viticulture vineyard.
We currently have another of Fonseca's Quintas being managed 100% organically.
The organic vineyards at Panascal have long been a key component to the vintage blends.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Guimaraens »

Roy Hersh wrote:David,

Back in 2003, when a bunch of us American Wine Journos came to Porto & the Douro, (when you met my wife & Taylor at 7 mos.) one of the participants was Brian Dorsk. He asked me if I would be able to please post his questions here for you:

"Inasmuch as I shall not be able to attend the forum (although I would love to), I'd like to ask David Guimaraens a few questions."

1. What is the current average production (in # of bottles) of vintage Port in declared years? Has the decline in purchases in recent years continued?

2. Having spoken at length with Adrian Bridge in May of 2008 at the Hong Kong Wine Expo, he mentioned that he continued to feel that the firm still had no plans to produce table wines. Has this view changed at all - does David have differing views?

3. I have a strong feeling that the current method of planting single varietals in new Douro region plantings results in shorter longevity if the wines (vintage Ports) versus the old traditional field blend plantings inasmuch as harvest brings in the grapes at virtually the same time with what would reasonably guarantee some unevenness in ripeness. I feel, as does as another Port producer, that this improves longevity and perhaps excellence in the declared vintage wines versus the newer single varietal plantings. What comment or opinion does David offer on my supposition?


Again, thank you on behalf of Brian!

Roy,
please pass on to Brian the following answers.
Volumes of Vintage Port produced used to be much greater in the 1970's and 1980's. During the 1990's volumes of Vintage produced reduced significantly as we turned to only producing Vintage from our own vineyards. As the vineyard plantings from the 80's and 90's gained maturity, the Vintages produced in the 00 decade increased, however this does vary depending on the year. 2003 was a large vintage with Taylor and Fonseca producing just over 12,000 cases each, however 2007, which had a very good start to the harvest and a more difficult second half, saw the Vintage blends reduce to the order of 8,000 cases.
These volumes are not related to the market conditions. We would have produced in 07 larger volumes if the blends suited.

Adrian Bridge and I have always been 100% of the same opinion that Port is our buiseness, and where we want to continue exclusively. As a Portmaker, there is so much detail that we need to continue to look at, and Port is so challenging and diverse, that why would I be interested in changing my way of thinking to produce table wine. I have n doubt that the approach in viticulture and winemaking is different for each. Where would we be with the magnificent evolution in our fortifying spirit if we had diverted our attention to table wine. The next question he places is equally appropriate.

Regarding the third question, I would like to refer to the answer I wrote on the first day regarding our filosofy to the grape varieties. I believe it answers all of his questions. Batch planting has significant benefits, and the co-fermentation we do is to address exactly what Brian refers to the advantages of the field blend.

David
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Re: David Guimaraens - December's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Kurt Wieneke »

Hi David,
Thanks for your insightful reply on my previous question about the Fonseca Guimaraens Vintage Port. You've mentioned the quality and approachability of the 1997 ports. Could you please share with us some of your recommendations for 1997 ports?

Regards,
Kurt Wieneke
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