GEORGE SANDEMAN - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

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George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Derek,
You know that a lot of the reasons that Vintage Port has the quality that it has are due to the vineyards from where the grapes come from. Up to 1970, Sandeman was buying grapes around in the Cima Corgo and making wine at Celeiros. For some reason, in 1970, there was a local management call to cut back a number of farmers , which unfortunately was done in the middle of the harvest and caused some bad feeling among these growers – with just cause I might add. Worse still as it was the quality growers (delivering towards the end of the harvest) who were rejected they were quickly snapped up by other companies.
This actually put a serious crimp in the Vintage Ports that Sandeman was making, and only after the purchase of QUINTA DO VAU (after which we named VAU VINTAGE), in 1988 did we start on the road to recovery.
Of course Sogrape Vinhos has a much wider selection of A-rated vineyards from which Luis can select fruit, so we think that Sandeman is back in terms of classic Vintage Port!
All best
George
George Sandeman
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Post by George Sandeman »

Dear Roy,
That’s a great story – I love the idea of squeezing Vintage Port from the cheesecloth! It sure worked!
I don’t think I know anyone who has been so publicly faithful to Port as you, and I have to say that I have always enjoyed meeting up with you and am looking forward to doing so for lunch and Vintage Port tasting at QUINTA DO SEIXO in May. With luck it will be glorious weather and we will be able to taste Vintage Port in its Cima Corgo berth!
The tasting note that you have on the Sandeman 1945 reminds me of a tasting that I had at Bern’s (of Steakhouse fame in Florida), where at the end of a tasting introducing the Sandeman 1994 the then sommelier Mike Rugers brought me a glass of deep red wine and asked me what it was.
I told him it was “red, fortified assumed Port, probably Sandeman (as he was testing me)”, I knew it wasn’t ’91 (we didn’t do it), it wasn’t ’85 or ’82 and it far to young to be anything before and couldn’t go any further.
He admitted it was a Sandeman 1963 and we calculated that it had gone into the Bern’s celler in around 1968, and basically it had not evolved since then! It was fascinating to see the 1963 as a young Vintage Port - 33 years after the harvest!
Recently II had a Sandeman 1945 – London bottling – which was very good, although more advanced that I remembered the Oporto bottling. Although it was sound, and showing original fruit in a mature manner, the ruby was long gone and had evolved into that wonderful delicate reminiscence of the power that it was once, with hints of tawny and subtle sweetness and Xmas figs.
All best
George
George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Andy
After 1991 (which we didn’t make!) it was strange to see people drinking the 1994s three years after in 1997 (we had not evolved that much then!). We concluded it was important to make a young drinking Vintage Port which would allow the classic Vintages to mature for 20-30 years.
In 1997 we had a wine from Vau, with a very high percentage of Touriga Franca which we really liked, but did not want to bottle as a classic Vintage, so after some deliberation and inventing creative names (like “Col.John Burning in Hell”, which we thought might have problems getting through the TTB) we chose the name VAU VINTAGE.
We thought that this was the right offering for people who were looking to enjoy young Vintage Port...........and delay them from opening the classic wine that they were laying down for the future.
Although the basis of VAU VINTAGE is Touriga Franca, the style is firm but soft tannins which support the fruit but allow it to shine. We released VAU VINTAGE as a “ready to drink” Vintage Port (with lots of “boos” and “hurrumpfs”) and people who tasted it loved its richness and fullness. The 1997 VAU VINTAGE is aging well, which has caused consternation and surprise, the first among who thought that “early drinking” meant “won’t last” and the second among those who discovered this wasn’t true!
VAU VINTAGE is going through the normal cycle of Vintage Port, with its difficult stage and dumb phases, but I think that it will show well in years to come – for those that didn’t drink it young! However it won’t go for 20 or 30 years!
We are going to keep releasing it according to the market interest, although possibly in smaller lots, and dedicating the remaining wine to FOUNDERS RESERVE.
I will dig out some harvest info for the 1958 and try and post it tomorrow.
All best
George
George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Glenn
The Sandeman wines for the ‘60s tend to have tannins are slightly firmer making them longer lasting wines, although the wines for the 70’s are pretty good. No doubt there is also an influence of the aging. I have found the recent Sandeman 1963 that I have tasted recently rather hard and, although not considered as such a good Vintage, I prefer the 1966 for drinking at the moment.
Storage is an important factor (see my notes on the 1963 at Bern’s, Fla.), and will advance or delay the evolution of the wine quite a bit.
One wine you should try to taste (to round out this decade) is the Sandeman 1967 – which was not made by very many companies (Sandeman, Cockburn, Noval.....somebody help me). I opened a bottle a couple of week ago with Axel Probst and it was great - still very alive and full of fruit – especially for a Vintage Port that wasn’t “declared”
All best,
George
George Sandeman
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Post by George Sandeman »

Dear Ronald
The Casa Ferreirinha wines (from Barca Velha to Qta.Leda to Esteva) are the original classic wines of the “new Douro”. There is no doubt that 20 years ago there were very few Douro wines which made the grade and BARCA VELHA is the most emblematic. It is a great step forward that so many other great winemakers have taken the same path.
While a lot of the new “new Douro” wines are much more fruit driven than the Casa Ferreirinha wines – today made by Luis Sottomayor – we have maintained these as the classic, well structured wines that they have been in past .
I love the diversity of the Douro wines, but I am a great fan of the finesse that one can find in Luis’ wines - but there is no doubt that “what’s new” gets more attention that “what’s classic”. We do get some get some great attention when Casa Ferreirinha releases Barca Velha!
As time goes on, I am sure that these wines will get there just recognition.
All best
George
George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Dear Alex,
Quinta do Seixo, one of Sogrape Vinhos most emblematic quintas, which is a couple of hundred years old, was rebuilt in 2008 and included the tourist visit as part of the winery concept – innovative for the Douro! Currently we are getting around 14,000 visitors a year and growing. In the next year we will build a restaurant on the top of the hill – which will have a beautiful view – and be open to visitors to Seixo.
All best,
George
George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Andy,
Douro wines are the original Port wines, and in fact James Forrester was both very supportive of the original Douro wines and critical of fortifying them or stopping their fermentation. I am not a traitor to Port, but we have to recognise that wine making in the Douro has created wines which reflect the quality of the viticulture and vineyards. I don’t believe that they threaten the future the Port, even if they will force people to make a choice as to how they will make the wines (dry or fortified). I have no doubt that the attention given to Douro wines will benefit quality Port and introduce new people to these wonderful wines.
It the future we will see Port and Douro side by side and ranging in quality from “Vintage” to “house red” (mine is Esteva!)
All best,
George
George Sandeman
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by George Sandeman »

Eric,
Sandeman started as a wine merchant specialising in Port and Sherry (and Madeira) and we are still doing it! 220 years later! We still ship Royal Corregidor, but not the VO Amoroso. My mother is from Jerez and I grew up drinking Sherry. I have a small barrel of bone dry old dry Amontillado in my cellar, and it is my favourite wine....as well as Vintage Port.......and Quinta do Leda.....and.....
All best
George
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Roy Hersh
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re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Roy Hersh »

George,

You are doing splendidly and this will make for a great read in months and years to come when people continue to visit this thread to read your words, immortalized here for Port-posterity sake! :salute:

You mention the Esteva bottlings and I own several vintages. Right now, I find the 2006 is drinking really well, whereas the 2001 is seemingly over the hill. What do you typically find is the prime drinking window for the Esteva bottlings? I realize this is entry level DOC Douro juice and I very much enjoy it as well, and don't have expectations for a very long lived wine (at this price point) but am curious as to your opinion.

Onto less terra firma:

We have bandied about the topic of Beneficio Rights, here on :ftlop: a number of times, but it is always fascinating to hear the disparate views from those in the trade. I hope you won't mind sharing your thoughts on:

a. whether the Beneficio Rights are in danger of becoming anachronistic given the proliferation of Douro wine production and the movement of growers becoming Port producers.

b. please do touch upon whether these "rights" may be hindering the actual growth of Port overall ... or not.

c. it would be great to learn if you believe that the Beneficio system would benefit from a major "overhaul" and whether the IVDP would be willing to even consider such a major sea change.

d. Lastly, would the Port trade be better off, if the Beneficio system was relinquished altogether (or would there be too much chaos) and would this make it easier for even more small growers of grapes to enter into the Port producing business, in the true sense of laissez-faire?

I realize this may require you to imbibe at least a glass or two of a fine Tawny or Vintage while responding, but this will truly help us to gain a better understanding of a topic that many (sadly) shy away from. Thank you in advance! :clap:
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Herman G.
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Herman G. »

Dear George,

During many years I am following the Port industry intensively. Time and again I saw quotes of people saying that there is an awful lack of Port Wine knowledge amongst most consumers (of course not in this forum).

Some years ago this brought me to the idea of two promotion posters. One with only text, the other with an artist designed image of a view of all Port types. Once you have seen the last one, you will remember it.

I tried to get interested some people, but without any success. The IVDP and ICEP/AICEP said: “We don’t have budget.” (for cheap posters?) The AEVP was not even interested in knowing these proposals.

Please tell me how I can wake up this community. Looking to the recent sales figures one should say it’s time for it.

Best regards,

Herman Gerdingh
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Andy Velebil
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Post by Andy Velebil »

George,

Thank you for your answers so far, they have been very enlightening and educational [notworthy.gif]

Since it seems some of the controversial questions are coming, I'll throw ask one as well. The Casa do Douro which was originally had power and control over a number of things, including grading vineyards, has seeming all but disappeared. Their buildings in the Douro I've seen are abandoned and if I'm not mistaken a year or two ago The Fladgae Group bought a substantial amount of their stocks of tawny. Strangely, information about this organization is impossible to find.

1) Can you give our readers a very brief history of the Casa do Douro?

2) What happened to cause the demise of the Casa do Douro?

3) Without the Casa do Douro what are the repercussions to the smaller farmers/growers?

4) Any other information about the Casa do Douro would be greatly appreciated. As this is a subject that I have been very interested in for some time, yet as I mentioned is very hard to find any information about.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Andy Velebil
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Post by Andy Velebil »

George,

Not a question, but in case you need a short break from typing and needed to enjoy a glass....thought I'd direct you to a post originally started in December 2007. The question was "What is your favorite vintage of Sandeman?" It's been interesting to see how many people hadn't had that many vintages of your Port back then, especially older ones. Now over 2 years later these same people (me included) have had some very old VP's since that time. It's quite an interesting read for sure.

CLICK HERE
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Julian D. A. Wiseman
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Post by Julian D. A. Wiseman »

George,

Welcome indeed to a reunion of that excellent lunch last June. Most excellent 1958 and 1960; most interesting ancient ruby.

Sandeman have traditionally been frequent declarers. Perhaps as many as thirty-four declarations since the war, though it might be that not all were released: 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948(?), 1950, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1957, 1958, 1959(?), 1960, 1962, 1963, 1965(?), 1966, 1967, 1968(?), 1970, 1972(?), 1974(?), 1975, 1977, 1978(?), 1980, 1982, 1985, 1988(?), 1994, 1997, 1999(?), 2000, 2003 and 2007. There are another twenty-ish declarations from 1900 until 1944, and twenty-one from 1858 until the end of the nineteenth century.

That’s twice the frequency of, say, Warre.

Having started there, the questions are obvious.
1. Is this high frequency declaration a deliberate policy?
2. Will it continue in the future?

Julian Wiseman.
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

George,

Thank you for the answer to my question about the reasons behind Sandeman's temporary fall from grace. Your honesty and openness are both refreshing and very much appreciated.

I would be interested in your views on the current level of regulation of the industry by the IVDP, specifically any areas where you think those regulations are either overly-restrictive or, conversely, where you think more regulation may be of benefit to the product and the trade? Without wishing to restrict the scope of your response: obvious areas that spring to mind are those governing the definition of styles/special categories; the vintage port approvals process; vineyard grading criteria; etc. I will leave out the Beneficio as Roy has raised that as a specific question.

Thanks
Derek

PS: I have sent you an email (I remember you telling me that you love them so much!)
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Post by Moses Botbol »

George:

Thanks for taking the time out to answer our questions. I am big fan of many Sandeman vintages. My favorites Sandeman Vintages are 1945, 1963, 1970, and 1980. I wonder why we don’t talk about Sandeman vintages as much as tawny? Everything up to 1980 has been pretty good and some outstanding. I would love to try 1927 again as the bottle we had was oxidized.

What years have bottles larger than 1500 been released? I’ve seen a recent one, but what about older vintages? Sandeman is a house I own more magnums of than anyone else.

Why hasn’t the Don played as large a role with recent marketing as it had in the past?

What sets your tawny (which I consider one of my favorites) apart from the rest?
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Glenn E.
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Post by Glenn E. »

Hi George,

This may seem like a bit of an oddball question, but it is one that (perhaps surprisingly) has confounded us for some time.

Here in the US it is rather difficult to find out how many grapes are authorized for Port production, and more specifically where we can find a list of said grapes. The usual sources on the internet contradict one another, and - amusingly - don't give the same number as another member of the Port trade reported to us during his Guest Corner appearance.

We believe that the authoritative source is Decree-Law No. 195/85 of 10 April 1985, but we have been unable to locate that document on the IVDP's web site (even in Portuguese).

Can you confirm the following, or even better direct us to the authoritative source online?
Total grape varieties approved for Port is 89. Same for table wines.

Approved White grapes: 29 (14 are recommended and a further 15 are authorized)

Approved Red grapes: 60 (24 are recommended and a further 36 are authorized)
Glenn Elliott
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Post by SEAN C. »

Hello George,

I love the 1945 vintage as well, I purchased 5 bottles of '45 Sandeman several years ago at auction and drank 3! Two bottles had low fills and signs of seepage but were still very good, one was excellent, and the more pristine bottles have yet to be opened. Was the 1945 Sandeman primarily bottled in Portugal, the UK, or both?
Here is a picture of a bottle that I own, can you tell me anything about this particular bottling?
Image

I generally prefer the 1966 vintage to the 1970 but I think the '70 Sandeman outshines the '66, which do you prefer?
Lastly what can you tell me about the 1896 and 1904 vintages? Have you had either recently and did they show well?
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

Sean
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John M.
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by John M. »

Dear George;

Thank you for participating in FTLOP. I'm rather new to Port and my question is this. Why do we not see more crusted ports in the market? The few I've been able to find have been very enjoyable--is it a cost-benefit thing?

Forgive me if this is a simple question--but I've been curious about this for some time.

Kinds Regards,
John
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Derek T.
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Derek T. »

John M. wrote:Forgive me if this is a simple question--but I've been curious about this for some time.
John (and George),

Sorry for hijacking the question, but...

I think this is an excellent question and certainly not one to apologise for. Hopefully others are not thinking in the same way and hesitating to ask questions here. One of the most significant things I have learned in all of my dealings with members of the port trade, including George, is that they are more than happy to engage with lovers of port of all ranges of experience. There are no stupid questions on this site. It exists to promote the education and discussion of Port.

If anyone is out there wondering whether or not to ask something - ask away - don't sit and wonder whether or not you should otherwise you will never get an answer :wink:

[friends.gif]

Derek
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Roy Hersh
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Re: George Sandeman - April's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Roy Hersh »

Not only that, but George is only here through the end of the week. Do not miss out on the opportunity as Derek has mentioned so succinctly! :scholar:

Now the question remains:

Has George Sandeman dropped his computer again? [help.gif]
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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