DIRK NIEPOORT - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Join in on discussions with winemakers and other personalities in the Port, Madeira and Douro Wine trades.

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dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Michael Hann wrote:Many thanks to Dirk for taking the time to address the many questions and share with us his experience, knowledge, and views. And thanks to Roy for setting this up. I have been lurking, reading the posted questions and answers with great interest, as I imagine have many others. It really is an exceptional experience, I think, to have this kind of direct communication with a super star of the Port world. This is like being able to listen in on the conversation of Marcel Proust discussing his writing or Fra Angelico discussing his painting.

I found Dirk's comment very illuminating that there need not be an antagonistic relationship between producing fine Port and producing fine dry wines in the Douro, because these wines tend to be produced from different vineyards or at different elevations. It seems to me that the general increase of revenues to the Douro area from producing fine dry wines must be good and may contribute to the collective improvement of both Port and dry wine vineyards (this is probably not the right term of reference to the wine of the Douro that is not fortified as Port, but I hope you know what I mean). Also, it may be that increased public attention focused on high quality Douro wines raises the public profile of high quality Port, and increased public attention focused on high quality Port raises the public profile of high quality Douro wines.

I BELIEVE THAT ´S THE WAY. IT SOMETIMES LOOKS LIKE WE ARE SPENDING MORE TIME AND EFFORD WITH THE WINES THAN WITH THE PORTS, BUT ONE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING CONCERNING PORT EVEN THOUGH THERE STILL ARE LOTS OF LITTLE DETAILS WE CAN IMPROVE. WITH THE WINES IT IS REALLY ALL NEW TO US. WE STILL HAVE A LOT TO LEARN ABOUIT THE DOURO AND ITS POTENTIAL.
WE ARE WORKING ON THAT.

regards
dirk
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Derek T. wrote:Dirk,

In about 6 hours from now I will be driving into the mountains of Scotland for three days of hiking - I am told the wind-chill tomorrow is only -10C so it should be great fun! This thread will be closed by the time I return to civilisation so I want to take this opportunity to thank you for participating here and for the open and honest way in which you have answered the many questions raised in this thread. I will leave you with one final question from me:

I have had the pleasure of visiting your facilities at Napoles, Vale de Mendiz and both of your lodges in Vila Nova de Gaia and having done so have witnessed the extremes in variation between the modern and the ancient environments in which port is produced. In your response to my question about Pisca you mentioned that you have been ageing that wine in your winery in the Douro under controlled conditions, presumably at Napoles? There are many other wineries now in the Douro with similar, but perhaps not so grand, facilities as those of Napoles and there seems to be a trend towards controlling, ageing and bottling of wines and ports in these facilities in the Douro rather than in VNG. I am often amazed that the non-sterile environments of the past managed to produce such great vintages as those of the first quarter of the 20th century and do wonder whether or not the current movement towards sterile methods and environments for making port will increase overall quality but reduce or eliminate the possibility of producing truely stellar natural vintages in the future.

Do you think that there will come a time when VNG is little more than a museum with more and more of the production process happening in the Douro? If so, are there aspects of the character that the relatively uncontrolled environment of the cellars in VNG add to the development of the wines that would be lost in having most or all of the premium products develop in entirely controlled environments such as those found in the modern winery?

I do think that there will be more and more aging process happening in the douro in the future.
you have to understand one thing:
the reason why the cellars of port are in vng is a logic one, actually two: because of the harbour for shipping the ports to england and the world but mainly because of aging conditions.
first: the douro is too hot to age wines. that´s why we talk about the douro backe on ports aged in the douro
second: vng is actually a hill that is northfacing . so it is much cooler than porto and being by the see there is always wind (north wind) and the cool brease from the ocean. porto is always much much cooler than the douro (up to 20 degrees difference in a day). and the evenings are always quite cold.

with modern insolation and airconditioning it is possible to age wines and ports in the douro..... but not too many quintas have good facilities to do so and it is crucial. at napoles we now have even better conditions than in vng (for small trials...not on the whole).


that s why the traditon in the portworld is to age the ports during the winter in the douro (because it is very cold) and ship the ports before the summer to vng (it is tooooo hot)

unfortunatly the government of vng doesnt seem to really want to keep too many lodges for maturing port in vng....hotels and apartments seem to give more money to some people. so it looks like vng will be a sort of museum in the long future....unfortunatly

dirk


Derek
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Paul_B wrote:I have to agree with Derek, it seems there is an exodus from VNG, maybe the rent is too expensive :lol:
I'm a bit concerned that we turn that into just a bus stop for tourists to taste 3 ports (a white, an LBV and 10 year old).
But at some point we have to follow progress, such as controlled temp environments being built in the Douro.
Maybe it is a way to reduce operating costs by having everything done in the douro.

Thanks again for taking the time and do pass by when you have a chance...maybe to give the members here advance notice on the release of the garrafeira 77 and maybe a special FTLOP offer (hint to Roy).

I hope I can taste or better own a garrafeira one day.

cheers
Paul
we are not really planing to start aging our ports in the douro. we are just making some experiments. for vintage it might be better to have ideal aging conditions, for tawny i m not sure. the humid conditions in vng I find are most probably much better than aging in the douro. these experiments will tell us more about these details.

for the moment it is not a question of costs it is more that the government is making our life more and more difficult : traffic conditions, allowing big buildings to be build in the area until now reserved for aging wines.....etc etc turisme...
it is a shame

dirk
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Thanks again for taking the time and do pass by when you have a chance...maybe to give the members here advance notice on the release of the garrafeira 77 and maybe a special FTLOP offer (hint to Roy).

I hope I can taste or better own a garrafeira one day.

I WILL LET YOU KNOW ABOUT WHEN THE 77 GARRAFEIRA WILL BE RELEASED

regards
dirk
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Moses Botbol »

Dirk:

Are the Garrafeira's meant to be a bottle aged or drunk upon release? I have been fortunate to try 4-5 different bottles, but they've all been from the 50's and maybe early 60's. I would love to try a fresh bottled version. I love the textured glass. Is that currently being used?
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Post by Andy Velebil »

Dirk,

Without giving away any secrets, are there any new projects you and your team are currently working on (or any upcoming projects) that you could share with us?
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Eric Ifune
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Post by Eric Ifune »

Dirk,
You mentioned you are experimenting with aging on the Dorro.
I've tasted from a cask that was aged on the Douro for some time and definitely had the Douro bake. I actually thought it added to the complexity, but could see how some would think it offputting. What are your thought on the Douro bake?
Thank you again for participating here! :thanks:
dirk niepoort
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:12 am
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Moses Botbol wrote:Dirk:

Are the Garrafeira's meant to be a bottle aged or drunk upon release? I have been fortunate to try 4-5 different bottles, but they've all been from the 50's and maybe early 60's. I would love to try a fresh bottled version. I love the textured glass. Is that currently being used?

not at all. we bottle it when we think it is getting there but still has a long potential for further aging.
the last garrafeira was the 1967 which I haven t really tasted that often (I think only once).
no we don t have the textured glass anymore...at least not in the same way.

regards
dirk
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Andy Velebil wrote:Dirk,

Without giving away any secrets, are there any new projects you and your team are currently working on (or any upcoming projects) that you could share with us?

yes, there are few interesting things going on.

we made a white palomino in jerez without fortifiying it. it is from a fantastic chalcky soil fermented in old sherry barrels and kept with "flor" for 5 month before being bottled. the first wine was from 2008 and is looking really good.

we made a red wine in ribeira sacra (spain). we only made 900 bts so it is very rare. ribeira sacra is fantastic and this wine is stunning.
made from alicante and mencilla from the 2008 vintage and was bottled recently. it is soooooooooo good. (we made it with raul perez)

fortified wine called fortified cape made from swatland grapes in south africa. we used only old vines from tinta barroca, syrah, pinotage carignane. I made the wine with eben sadie and we bottled it about a month ago. it is amazing.

I helped my friend luis cerdeira from soalheiro making some white alvarinho fermented and aged in wood (soalheiro reserva) and also a soalheiro primeiras vinhas made from the oldest vines in melgaco. it is almost all fermented in stainless steal and is really sexy.

I have been making since 2002 wines in austria with dorli muhr. I particularly like the blaufraenkisch. I m totally in love with the terroir of the spitzerberg in carnuntum and the wines are getting better and better. i m very curious to see how they will age. I think very well indeed.
blaufraenkisch is for me the most elegant and fine variety after the pinot noir. it has its own personality but can be really amazing. our wines are very light (but deep) and elegant (with great long finish).

we have released recently a 10 year old white port. it is slightly dryer than usual and very fresh and vibrant but with great structure.

life is good
and we learn a lot by doing
we were not born knowing everything so we learn by doing

dirk
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Eric Ifune wrote:Dirk,
You mentioned you are experimenting with aging on the Dorro.
I've tasted from a cask that was aged on the Douro for some time and definitely had the Douro bake. I actually thought it added to the complexity, but could see how some would think it offputting. What are your thought on the Douro bake?
Thank you again for participating here! :thanks:

dear eric,

as a rule I don t like the douro bake. the douro bake makes the Ports thinner (look older which can be comercially good but we dont do that at all) , stripped, and shorter. yes, the rancio can be interesting and expressiv but we really don t want it. I believe also that those dourobaked wines age less well in bottle.

we are aging the pisca in the douro because we have perfect conditions (perfect but maybe not better than aging the ports in gaia.....we will see) otherwise I wouldn t do it.

dirk
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Post by Roy Hersh »

Hi Dirk,

Last night Dorene & I celebrated our 10th anniversary at a local restaurant and after dessert enjoyed a 1795 Barbeito Terrantez Madeira. Although we have discussed mostly Port and Douro wines here, I know you are a big Madeira enthusiast and am wondering if you would please let us know a few of your top Madeira experiences?

Also, now that you have tackled some ventures making wines from Spain, Austria and So. Africa in addition to Portugal, have you ever considered trying your hand at making Madeira?
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Eric Ifune »

Hello Dirk,
Your discussion of Garrafeira wines has raised my curiosity. If I took a demijohn, filled it with good VP or an unfiltered LBV, aged it; what would happen? I'm hoping something good, or am I just crazy.
Thank you.
dirk niepoort
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by dirk niepoort »

Roy Hersh wrote:Hi Dirk,

Last night Dorene & I celebrated our 10th anniversary at a local restaurant and after dessert enjoyed a 1795 Barbeito Terrantez Madeira. Although we have discussed mostly Port and Douro wines here, I know you are a big Madeira enthusiast and am wondering if you would please let us know a few of your top Madeira experiences?

Also, now that you have tackled some ventures making wines from Spain, Austria and So. Africa in addition to Portugal, have you ever considered trying your hand at making Madeira?

good for you. how was the 1795???? probably better than the one I had last week from unknow shipper. the barbeito I have always liked very very much. my bt was also stunning.
as you know I love madeira and have quite a few bts in my cellar.
my favourite have been the very old from artur barros de souza particularly the moscatel from 1895 .
particular good are also the madeiras bottle by alex little in the 80´s.
of the young madeira the absolute best are for me the single barrel bottling of barbeito.

I would love to make some madeira but madeiras are even worse than ports....really long long time projects.

dirk
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Re: Dirk Niepoort - May's Forum Guest Corner Host

Post by Roy Hersh »

Dirk,

I've had mostly good luck with the 1795 Barbeito Terrantez, although one bottle was pretty dried up and within an hour of opening it, the contents were dull and the life vanished into thin air. This bottle was fresh and excellent. It took me ten minutes of sniffing before I ventured my first sip.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer so many fine and detailed questions this past week. I know we've all learned from the great information you have shared with us and this will now become a permanent archival file for people to read here over the years to come. [notworthy.gif] Thank you for your generous sharing of your time and wisdom!

We look forward to seeing you next week, volcano permitting. [beg.gif]
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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