Establishing my port collection.

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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Moses Botbol     » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:22 pm

Glenn E. wrote:
Thomas V wrote:Which houses and years would you recommend?

Ugh... that's tough. All 3 can seem very much alike when young, though head-to-head you'd have a better chance of telling them apart. I'm regularly fooled into thinking that LBV is an SQVP provided it's served by itself (or only with other LBVs).


I'd go for any 2 crusted and then look for an older vintage from the same house.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Thomas V     » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:32 pm

Moses Botbol wrote:I'd go for any 2 crusted and then look for an older vintage from the same house.


What is your thought process behind that? Wouldn't a 2012 bottling Crusted Port against an older and mature VP be an odd comparison? Also when you say older is that like 90's or 80's?
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Thomas V     » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:36 pm

Glenn E. wrote:
Thomas V wrote:Which houses and years would you recommend?

I would go for the oldest grouping that you can find. The three Dows from 2000 might be old enough. What you're trying to get is separation in the ageing processes. To me that starts to become significant at about 15 years old where even an unfiltered LBV begins to show some age.


Both in the ageing process, as you mention, but perhaps also just a few years from bottling, to see what the quality differences are between the grapes used for these different types.

Also most likely that period just after bottling is time that these types are closest to each other in pricing?
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Moses Botbol     » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:00 pm

Thomas V wrote:
Moses Botbol wrote:I'd go for any 2 crusted and then look for an older vintage from the same house.


What is your thought process behind that? Wouldn't a 2012 bottling Crusted Port against an older and mature VP be an odd comparison? Also when you say older is that like 90's or 80's?


Something from '90-'00 would be fair. Crusted port was meant to taste like a vintage port on the cheap; so compare it vintage port just coming into its drinking window. If you went older it's just to see if the house style is apparent in the Crusted vs Vintage. I would think or hope the producers can nail the house style on a crusted port since they are blending it after-the-fact. Maybe their intent on the profile is different on purpose? Would be a question for the trade...
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Thomas V     » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:01 pm

These are the the setups I have looked at so far. They are being dictated by the Crusted ports I could find and their contents.

I am very undecided if I should stick to a LBV and VP that is very close in age to the Crusted? For instance the Niepoort and Churchill examples.... Or if I should do a setup with and older VP like Moses suggested. Perhaps a mix of both.

Niepoort
Niepoort Crusted Bottled in 2012 (09', 10', 11') - 20 USD or Niepoort Crusted Bottled in 2011
Niepoort 2011 VP - 85 USD or Niepoort 2003 VP - 85 USD
Niepoort 2011 LBV - 22 USD

Fonseca
Fonseca 2003 VP - 87 USD
Fonseca Bicentenary - Bottled in 2008 - 24 USD
Fonseca 2001 LBV - 25 USD

Churchill's
Churchill's Crusted 2005 - 35 USD
Churchill's 2007 VP - 79 USD
Churchill's 2007 LBV - 22 USD

Graham's
Graham's 1997 VP - 90 USD
Graham's Crusted 2012 - 30 USD
Graham's 2011 LBV - 22 USD
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Thomas V     » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:49 pm

Going back to the Crusted port tasting where I will lineup a Crusted, LBV and VP from each house present in the tasting.

I have gotten the chance to buy a Cockburn's Crusted bottled in 1987 and I have found a 1982 LBV (I am investigating if they will ship to Denmark). If the LBV sorts itself out (I have a backup in a 1996) which year VP should I pair these other two bottles with.

Since this is a club tasting I wont take a chance with my guests money and buy a 1983, given the risk of getting a VA bottle. I have been offered both the 1985 and the 1991 at a fair price, but the ratings do not impress me in the tasting database. Another option is to go older with the 1977. What is my best bet? I prefer if the span in time between the 3 wines are not to great as it needs to be a fair comparison between the three.
Cheers and thanks for your input.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Al B.     » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:00 am

I love the idea of being able to taste a crusted, an LBV and a vintage port from the same producer and from roughly the same vintage. To be able to do that for three different producers with different levels of maturity on them would be really interesting.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Postby Thomas V     » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:54 pm

The lineup has been finalized after much back and forth. Tough job [d_training.gif]

Finding old crusted was a hard thing while on a budget. So I instead increased the span in time between the Crusted (bottle date, where the mix of vintages are older)and the VP to see what kind of difference it would give. The gap in age increased by respectively 1, 3, 11 and 27 years between Crusted and VP.

While also increasing the age between the Crusted ports 12', 08', 00' and 87' by respectively 4, 8 and 12 years

2012 Niepoort Crusted (btl year)
2012 Niepoort LBV
2011 Niepoort VP

With the Niepoorts it is roughly the same year on all 3 bottles


2008 Fonseca Bicentenary Crusted
2011 Fonseca LBV
1997 Fonseca VP

I couldn't find a younger LBV at a reasonable price. Here the span between the Crusted and VP is 11 years.

2000 Dow's Crusted (btl year)
2009 Dow's LBV
2003 Dow's VP

Span of 3 years here between the Crusted and VP in the Dow's setup

1987 Cockburn's Crusted (btl year)
1986 Cockburn's LBV
1960 Cockburn's VP

I wanted to get an aged Crusted and a ditto VP. I was so lucky that a private seller made an auction from a death estate on both Dow's 66 and Cockburn's 60' VP. Danish bottling in red wine bottles and in very good condition. And the seller even lived only 3 km from my own place. So I just had to include it.
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