Establishing my port collection.

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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Moses Botbol wrote:Two good sleepers are '80 Sandeman and '80 Taylor. Heck, '80 Graham ain't bad either.
I've tried the 80' Sandeman this spring it was fair but not good. Seemed over the hill for me. A bit dull. Think I gave it 90 points.

Have only tried Taylor's 85 which I guess you rank higher than the 80'?
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Glenn E.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Glenn E. »

Thomas V wrote:I guess I need to get my hands on some G85 and some more F85. Lost a bit of interest in G85 after a bad bottle (First crack at it), but I for sure want to try it again. What would be a good price for these?
It's hard for me to say since all I really know are the prices in the US. Prices on both of those have gone up here a little bit over time. I used to be able to get them reliably for $80/bottle (and often lower), but now $85-$95 seems to be normal. $100 isn't at all uncommon as an asking price, but I at least wouldn't pay that yet.
Never tasted the Dow's 1980 before and haven't heard much talk about it really. Sounds interesting and if it is better than the 85' Dow's which I have had a couple of times it must be very good.
It's somewhat rare and also somewhat famous in Port circles. You can probably blame Roy for that. :wink: He's often the first to identify an underrated Port (like 1985 Fonseca - no, really, it was underrated before Roy started proclaiming its virtues). It is one of the darkest, least mature Ports from the 1980s. I haven't had it recently, but the last time (probably 4-5 years ago, I think) it was so backwards that I fixed in my head not to touch one again until they're 40 years old. Only 4 more years to wait! :lol:

In case you haven't already seen this, the 1983 Cockburn is a fabulous Port... when it isn't corked, which sadly is all too often. Some people report as high as 75-80% corked bottles. I've been extremely lucky in that all 3 of the bottles I can remember tasting have been clean. (And verified as clean by others, seeing as I can't smell or taste TCA. :D) So if you want to try a bottle, do so with the expectation that it may very well be bad. Certainly don't pay full price for a bottle - whereas $60-$80 would otherwise be normal for a VP of that era, I wouldn't recommend spending more than $40 and really it should be less. Either that or get the store to guarantee the bottle against TCA (ha!).
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Eric Menchen »

I had 1980 Dow, Graham, Smith Woodhouse, and Warres side-by-side last fall (21 Sep 2015).
I scored them 94, 92, 91, and 95 points, respectively. You can find my notes here on the site. Not everyone in the group scored the Warres the highest, but I think there was good consensus on the Dow and Warres being the two best.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Moses Botbol »

Thomas V wrote:
Moses Botbol wrote:Two good sleepers are '80 Sandeman and '80 Taylor. Heck, '80 Graham ain't bad either.
I've tried the 80' Sandeman this spring it was fair but not good. Seemed over the hill for me. A bit dull. Think I gave it 90 points.

Have only tried Taylor's 85 which I guess you rank higher than the 80'?
I never had '80 & '85 Taylor side by side. For some reason, I've had difficulty finding '85 Taylor, but never chased it either. I have cases of all the other big '85 vintages, but not one bottle '85 Taylor.

The last time I was drinking '80 Taylor and Sandeman were from magnum cases I get for real cheap. Was popping those bottles like they were simple table wine :drunk: . Maybe it was the magnum format that made them show that better?

You give 90 points to a "fair but not good" wine? Where were you when I needed my tests graded in high school? [cheers.gif]
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Moses Botbol
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Moses Botbol »

Thomas V wrote:
Moses Botbol wrote:Two good sleepers are '80 Sandeman and '80 Taylor. Heck, '80 Graham ain't bad either.
I've tried the 80' Sandeman this spring it was fair but not good. Seemed over the hill for me. A bit dull. Think I gave it 90 points.

Have only tried Taylor's 85 which I guess you rank higher than the 80'?
I never had '80 & '85 Taylor side by side. For some reason, I've had difficulty finding '85 Taylor, but never chased it either. I have cases of all the other big '85 vintages, but not one bottle '85 Taylor.

The last time I was drinking '80 Taylor and Sandeman were from magnum cases I get for real cheap. Was popping those bottles like they were simple table wine :drunk: . Maybe it was the magnum format that made them show that better?

You give 90 points to a "fair but not good" wine? Where were you when I needed my tests graded in high school? [cheers.gif]
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Eric Menchen
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Eric Menchen »

Apparently I've had 1985 Taylor three times, once when it was underwhelming and too hot, once in a Taylor vertical where I gave it 91, and once blind in a 1985 horizontal where I gave it 92. It was better than many of the others wines in the 1985 horizontal, but not better than the other labels we've mentioned (SW, RP, Fonseca, Graham). It's a decent Port, but not up to the Taylor standard and certainly not in the best of vintage conversation. I'd pick one up if it were a total bargain, but otherwise I'm not going to spend my time on it.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by John M. »

Eric Menchen wrote:Apparently I've had 1985 Taylor three times, once when it was underwhelming and too hot, once in a Taylor vertical where I gave it 91, and once blind in a 1985 horizontal where I gave it 92. It was better than many of the others wines in the 1985 horizontal, but not better than the other labels we've mentioned (SW, RP, Fonseca, Graham). It's a decent Port, but not up to the Taylor standard and certainly not in the best of vintage conversation. I'd pick one up if it were a total bargain, but otherwise I'm not going to spend my time on it.
+1----I've also had three times. It showed well once (92 points), the other two were was mediocre (high 80s)--but not much praise in my notes.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Glenn E. wrote:
Thomas V wrote:I guess I need to get my hands on some G85 and some more F85. Lost a bit of interest in G85 after a bad bottle (First crack at it), but I for sure want to try it again. What would be a good price for these?
It's hard for me to say since all I really know are the prices in the US. Prices on both of those have gone up here a little bit over time. I used to be able to get them reliably for $80/bottle (and often lower), but now $85-$95 seems to be normal. $100 isn't at all uncommon as an asking price, but I at least wouldn't pay that yet.
Never tasted the Dow's 1980 before and haven't heard much talk about it really. Sounds interesting and if it is better than the 85' Dow's which I have had a couple of times it must be very good.
It's somewhat rare and also somewhat famous in Port circles. You can probably blame Roy for that. :wink: He's often the first to identify an underrated Port (like 1985 Fonseca - no, really, it was underrated before Roy started proclaiming its virtues). It is one of the darkest, least mature Ports from the 1980s. I haven't had it recently, but the last time (probably 4-5 years ago, I think) it was so backwards that I fixed in my head not to touch one again until they're 40 years old. Only 4 more years to wait! :lol:

In case you haven't already seen this, the 1983 Cockburn is a fabulous Port... when it isn't corked, which sadly is all too often. Some people report as high as 75-80% corked bottles. I've been extremely lucky in that all 3 of the bottles I can remember tasting have been clean. (And verified as clean by others, seeing as I can't smell or taste TCA. :D) So if you want to try a bottle, do so with the expectation that it may very well be bad. Certainly don't pay full price for a bottle - whereas $60-$80 would otherwise be normal for a VP of that era, I wouldn't recommend spending more than $40 and really it should be less. Either that or get the store to guarantee the bottle against TCA (ha!).
I can get some G85's from a friend I know at around 75 USD / bottle. I have bought older VPs from him before and they have been in good conditions. So no hesitations there comparing with US prices it should seem. The F85 I do not have a good source for. I will need to work that lead through the people I know and see if something pops up.

I have read about the Cockburn 83' and the issues surrounding it. I think I will stay off that one for now. I have so many different ports that I want to include in my collection that I don't want to spend money on a known wild card even if it can show amazing at time. Maybe at a tasting once I will try it. It really is a shame that a such small factor (yet so large impact) could have ruined what many describe as such a lovely port. What has your ratings been like for those 3 good bottles?

As always thanks for chiming in Glenn.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Moses Botbol wrote:
Thomas V wrote:
Moses Botbol wrote:Two good sleepers are '80 Sandeman and '80 Taylor. Heck, '80 Graham ain't bad either.
I've tried the 80' Sandeman this spring it was fair but not good. Seemed over the hill for me. A bit dull. Think I gave it 90 points.

Have only tried Taylor's 85 which I guess you rank higher than the 80'?
I never had '80 & '85 Taylor side by side. For some reason, I've had difficulty finding '85 Taylor, but never chased it either. I have cases of all the other big '85 vintages, but not one bottle '85 Taylor.

The last time I was drinking '80 Taylor and Sandeman were from magnum cases I get for real cheap. Was popping those bottles like they were simple table wine :drunk: . Maybe it was the magnum format that made them show that better?

You give 90 points to a "fair but not good" wine? Where were you when I needed my tests graded in high school? [cheers.gif]
I went back and look up my TN on the 80' Sandeman VP. It read as this:
Red brown colour. Slightly more transparent that anticipated. Very intricate bouquet of vanilla and plums, quite delicious. The nose though was a tad dominated by alcohol as well as the taste. That was mostly a result of the lack of any lingering fruit in this wine. In my opinion this wine has peaked some years ago and is in remission, I would suggest you open one if you have some in your cellar to sample it sooner rather than later. It was still a a fun experience and my first try with a 1980 and a VP from Sandeman.

89 points
I think that you are spot on with the magnum format you were drinking having evolved slower than the .75 cl bottle I was drinking.

Regarding my comment about it being fair, that was without having consulted my score and TN. I just remembered others at the tasting being very harsh with it while I did enjoy it albeit I don't think I would by another one if it would present the same way. So perhaps a more correct way of wording it would be that it is a good wine that in the showing we had seemed to have started regressing from its peak a few years ago. I actually are often considered a bit sting with my scores though in the last ½ year I have been give a few more points when I taste something I really like. The ceiling used to be around 93, but I have given as high as 98 since September.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Eric Menchen wrote:Apparently I've had 1985 Taylor three times, once when it was underwhelming and too hot, once in a Taylor vertical where I gave it 91, and once blind in a 1985 horizontal where I gave it 92. It was better than many of the others wines in the 1985 horizontal, but not better than the other labels we've mentioned (SW, RP, Fonseca, Graham). It's a decent Port, but not up to the Taylor standard and certainly not in the best of vintage conversation. I'd pick one up if it were a total bargain, but otherwise I'm not going to spend my time on it.
Last time I tasted it was a a big fair at the end of a 3 hours session. So I do not fully trust my own evaluation of the T85 as my palate and senses were not where they should be for making any astute observations. Just to state it my rating was 90 points. [cheers.gif]

I will be tasting it again in March at a tasting I am organizing in my club. The theme is called Eighties party and so far the lineup looks like this.

I probably need to add in 2-3 more wines at a not to expensive price and preferably not a house that is already in the lineup.

1980 Gould Campbell

1983 Ramos Pinto
1983 Graham's

1985 Fonseca
1985 Smith Woodhouse
1985 Taylor's
1985 Dow's
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Moses Botbol »

Thomas V wrote: I think that you are spot on with the magnum format you were drinking having evolved slower than the .75 cl bottle I was drinking.
I found a few bottles of '80 Sandeman, but did not take them with me.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Reflecting over this first year of serious port purchasing for my cellar and future drinking over a glass of Madeira funnily enough.

This is what I have added to my inventory with focus on the 80's and 90's mostly and from solid VP producers. A few good deals on 2011 made me add those as well.

Best buys would probably be the RP83, the GC85 and the DR11 which were all bought at a very good price.

1980 GC (4)
1983 Ramos Pinto (4)
1983 Grahams (2)
1985 Ferreira (1)
1985 Fonseca (1)
1985 GC (6)
1991 Ramos Pinto (1)
1994 Dow's (2)
1997 Fonseca (2)
2006 Vesuvio (1)
2011 DR (2)
2011 Ferreira (3)
2011 Portal (2)
2011 Boa Vista (6)
2011 Andresen (1)
2011 Quevedo (2)
2013 Vesuvio (3)

Thanks all for contributing to this thread during the year. I appreciate it immensely and I hope you will continue to answer my questions and offer your opinions and advice for the year to come.

Question comes to mind. If you could add 1 or 2 ports to this cellar what would it be? (I have purposely skipped 2000, 2003 and 2007 for now, unless I see a bargain)

I would probably go with 1994 Vesuvio and 1985 Graham's.

Happy new years.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Eric Menchen »

Thomas V wrote:Question comes to mind. If you could add 1 or 2 ports to this cellar what would it be? (I have purposely skipped 2000, 2003 and 2007 for now, unless I see a bargain)

I would probably go with 1994 Vesuvio and 1985 Graham's.
Great answers. And I would consider Smith Woodhouse if the price is right.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Eric Menchen wrote:
Thomas V wrote:Question comes to mind. If you could add 1 or 2 ports to this cellar what would it be? (I have purposely skipped 2000, 2003 and 2007 for now, unless I see a bargain)

I would probably go with 1994 Vesuvio and 1985 Graham's.
Great answers. And I would consider Smith Woodhouse if the price is right.
Hi Eric

What year are you referring to or just generally SWC for the 80's and 90's?
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Eric Menchen »

Thomas V wrote:What year are you referring to or just generally SWC for the 80's and 90's?
Generally. But I can say I like 1983, 1985, and 1994; and the 1997 and 1980 aren't bad either.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Hi guys,

Need a suggestions for 1 last bottle for an upcoming tasting in my club. The theme is vintage ports from the 80's, so no SQ allowed :roll: .

Must be a house that is not already present in the lineup and the Fonseca 1985 is excluded as the max budget for the last bottle is aprox 70 USD.

Current lineup (These bottles are bought and ready for the tasting).

1987 Niepoort
1985 Gould Campbell
1985 Taylor's
1985 Smith Woodhouse
1985 Dow's
1985 Graham's
1983 Graham's
1983 Ramos Pinto
1980 Gould Campbell

I myself have been contemplating the 1985 Wiese & Krohn, a 1985 Quinta do Infantado or a 1985 Ferreira (I've had that one before).

Cheers
Last edited by Thomas V on Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John M.
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by John M. »

Best bet IMHO is the 1985 Grahams.

The 1980 Gould Campbell I've had 3 times, one was so so, one good and the last I had at a big tasting in NYC and it was close to the WOTN. It's also curiously dark (elderberry added??? no one is saying) so it would have an added talking point.

The Dows is good too,
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

John M. wrote:Best bet IMHO is the 1985 Grahams.

The 1980 Gould Campbell I've had 3 times, one was so so, one good and the last I had at a big tasting in NYC and it was close to the WOTN. It's also curiously dark (elderberry added??? no one is saying) so it would have an added talking point.

The Dows is good too,
Hi John

Those bottles I've listed are all part of the lineup eg. they are bought and ready. I need 1 additional bottle from a house not already present. [friends.gif]
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Glenn E. »

Can you find a 1980 Dow?
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection.

Post by Thomas V »

Glenn E. wrote:Can you find a 1980 Dow?
Not at 70 USD I think.

Also that would make 2 ports from Dow's as the 1985 is already in the lineup.

The only reason there is 2 Graham's is that I got them cheap and a member really wanted to taste the 85 up against the 83 and I indulged him. The Gould Campbells also were very cheap so I decided to include both the 80 and the 85 to clear up which is the better.
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