Relative safety of auction sites and stores

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Gregory of Nazianzus
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Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Gregory of Nazianzus »

Hello,

I am very new to buying vintage port. I have purchased a few nice older bottles (nothing older than the eighties that I can recall) from trusted wine stores for immediate enjoyment with family or friends, but I am a transient academic at the moment and do not plan to attempt to build a cellar until I am established somewhere.

That said, I have a few major events coming up (parents' anniversary, sister's wedding) for which I would like to consider buying some older bottles, and I am not sure where to begin. I have searched, for example, for a 1985 Graham's on wine-searcher, and I find an array of choices with a huge range in price. Most of these give no information or almost no information about the bottle, and none seem to provide individual photos. If I am set on buying a given wine today, on the Internet, rather than choosing from what is available at a trusted source, what is my best bet? Is an equally low-information source selling at a higher price point likely to be selling a better bottle? Whom can I trust? Is buying from a place like aucwine.com setting me up for a likely disappointment? Is there some way I could have known that that was a stupid question before I even asked it?

Thanks for your expertise.
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Gary Richardson
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Gary Richardson »

Hi Gregory ... and welcome!

I am not much on advice, but I can tell you my approach as I have struggled with the same questions. In general, I am not sure that you can trust anyone until you have developed some kind of trustworthy relationship with them. That means that the first purchase with them is usually a leap of faith. And, you still don't know how that person/store/auction house came to be in possession of the bottle(s) that you are purchasing and what the history of that bottle is prior to their possession. Sometimes, the condition of the bottle can indicate the condition of the contents so that is the first thing I look at (especially on older bottles.) With all of that said, I have found that Port is a very hearty product that can take a lot of abuse and still be quite good. So, I usually take a chance as long as the price is right.

One example that I can think of: A few years ago, I bought an unmarked, actively leaking, filthy bottle with a degraded cork and a low fill level from a local store that I have purchased from with some frequency. The price was not bad, so I took a chance. It turned out to be a 1963 Fonseca Vintage and the Port was wonderful. I have made several of these kinds of purchases and have only been disappointed one time. So, I will keep taking those chances.

Happy hunting!
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Thomas V
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Thomas V »

Gary Richardson wrote: One example that I can think of: A few years ago, I bought an unmarked, actively leaking, filthy bottle with a degraded cork and a low fill level from a local store that I have purchased from with some frequency. The price was not bad, so I took a chance. It turned out to be a 1963 Fonseca Vintage and the Port was wonderful. I have made several of these kinds of purchases and have only been disappointed one time. So, I will keep taking those chances.
How did you find out what you bought? From the cork?
Eric Menchen
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Eric Menchen »

You've asked very good questions, most of which have no simple nor definitive answers. But before I get into generalities ...
Gregory of Nazianzus wrote:Is an equally low-information source selling at a higher price point likely to be selling a better bottle?
This one I will say no. Some sellers will charge more for better bottles, less for those in worse condition. And there are some sellers out there that only sell bottles in better shape and they do charge more. But there are plenty of sellers out there charging a lot for crappy bottles. Plenty of stores will sell something that is old for a lot of money, more than the overall market would suggest is a reasonable price. There of lots of people that don't know about all the search tools and markets available, and some people that can't take advantage of them, say in a place that doesn't allow for shipping of alcohol to the consumer.
Bradley Bogdan
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Bradley Bogdan »

Welcome Gregory! Just as there are trusted retailers/auctioneers in the physical realm, it is much the same on the internet as well. They are generally marked by good reviews from fellow wine lovers, willingness to provide information/provenance/pictures of the aged bottles you're considering, and display good customer service. Even if pictures aren't generally provided on a site, I've found good retailers to more than happy to email pictures and share the information they have on bottles, at which point you can decide whether their price is fair or not. Other sites display essentially all the info/pictures they have online. While that can make things more convenient, I've not found it to make much of a difference in the quality to price ratio of what's offered. Some of my favorite sources just simply don't invest as much in their website, for whatever reason. If a retailer/auctioneer isn't willing to send you pictures, won't disclose provenance or seems to be misrepresenting what they have/where it came from, don't buy it, just as you wouldn't at a physical shop. Occasionally a price for a bottle is so good that it's worth buying as more of a lotto ticket, but most of the time you should stick with sources that give you enough information to do your homework.


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Eric Menchen
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Eric Menchen »

Here's some older information on some of the online auctions. Since I posted this several have raised their buyer's premiums, and I've bought from Spectrum a number of times.
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... =6&t=17690
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Gary Richardson
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Re: Relative safety of auction sites and stores

Post by Gary Richardson »

Thomas V wrote:
Gary Richardson wrote: One example that I can think of: A few years ago, I bought an unmarked, actively leaking, filthy bottle with a degraded cork and a low fill level from a local store that I have purchased from with some frequency. The price was not bad, so I took a chance. It turned out to be a 1963 Fonseca Vintage and the Port was wonderful. I have made several of these kinds of purchases and have only been disappointed one time. So, I will keep taking those chances.
How did you find out what you bought? From the cork?
Yes
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