Questions for a tasting

[Eric Menchen]

I'm going to host a tasting and dinner with friends in a few weeks, and being something of a Port newbie and also wanting to make the best of this, I have some questions. First, my plans: I want to have two tasting flights of four ports, one of tawnies and colheitas, one of VPs (and one LBV). My plan right now is to do all the tasting before dinner, then dinner, a cheese course, and dessert, all of which is chosen to match to the Port so my guests can continue to drink Port through the evening if they chose. I might have some other wine available for dinner as well. While all my guests have had Port before and like it, most have never had a VP or Colheita. Right now, my lineup is:

Tawnies & Colheitas:
- Cálem 10 Year Old Tawny
- Kopke 1987 Colheita (bottled 2006 I think)
- Niepoort 1980 Colheita (bottled 2000)
- Sandeman 40 Year Old Tawny

VPs etc.:
- 1970 Croft
- 1985 Graham's (or Smith Woodhouse?)
- 1994 Broadbent (or Quinta do Vesuvio or Smith Woodhouse?)
- 2000 Fonseca LBV

Now to my questions:
1. Which flight should be first?
2. What order within the flights?
3. Which of the above need to be decanted? I know the three VPs do. What about the others? At the moment I only own three decanters, and my guests can lend at least two more, but that still leaves me short if I have to decant them all.
4. How long should the various Ports be decanted?
5. What do you think of the 1985 selection? Should I serve the Smith Woodhouse instead? I actually prefer it, but Graham's seems more like a standard that my guests should sample. Also, I might want to save the Smith Woodhouse, of which I currently only have one of that vintage, for a future vertical tasting.
6. What do you think of the 1994 selection? I found that Broadbent locally, but since then bought some of the Vesuvio and Smith Woodhouse, so I was thinking of serving one of those instead. I know the Vesuvio is on Roy's Top Twelve list, and is excellent. On the other hand, I've never had the Broadbent, which is made by Niepoort but I understand is not the same exact blend as that sold under the Niepoort label.
7. Does my plan of serving all of these before dinner make sense? Or would you change it up? If so, how?

Any other thoughts? Sorry, but all my guests accepted my invitation, and I can't cook for any more people, in case you were wondering :?

-Eric

[Glenn E.]

Any other thoughts? Sorry, but all my guests accepted my invitation, and I can't cook for any more people, in case you were wondering :?

Drat, foiled again!

I would serve the tawnies first because they are typically lighter and more subtle in their flavors. Within the tawny flight, I would serve the pair of Colheitas together first, then serve the two Tawnies with an Indication of Age. I don't think it really matters which of those you serve first in each pair, though to be safe I would serve the older bottle first in each case. The reason is that the older Ports tend to have more mellow and subtle flavors, so you want to taste those first before your palate has been crushed by something younger, bolder, and more powerful. Normally I would serve something that is 40 years old first, then the pair of 30-yr olds, then the 10-yr old but in this case I think you're going to want to be able to compare the Ports within their styles.

For the rubies, oldest first and just serve them in order. I'm not 100% certain about serving the LBV last, but I lack the experience to really know where that should be served in a flight with VPs. Out of your options, I'd go with the ones you have picked. The G85 is a wonderful wine and there's a pretty good chance that the SW85 isn't ready yet (SW seems to make remarkably powerful Ports). I'm biased toward the Broadbent '94 because I have a 6-pack of those and would like to hear what you think of them. Roy tells me that the Broadbent is a single grape VP, too, which makes it an interesting comparison with the others. Plus there's the fact that the V94 and SW94 are far too young to really show well.

Decanting:

The tawnies do not need to be decanted, but it also doesn't hurt to give them an hour to air out before you start drinking. That can be done in the glass if you lack decanters. If you're going to be re-using glasses, just air the Colheitas because the 10- and 40-yr olds will be fine right out of the bottle.

On the VP side, you'll definitely want to decant and you'll need quite a bit of time for most of those. Hopefully others will chime in, because I'm just guessing on times based on what I've read around here. But just in case no one else responds this will at least give you something to work with.

I have no experience or knowledge of the 1970 Croft, but based on other 1970s I'm going to say give this 4-6 hours in the decanter. The G85 needs somewhere in the 6-7 range, as I recall, while if you choose to serve the SW85 it might need more like 10-12. No clue on the Broadbent... but I suspect it will need at least 4 hours and can't imagine that a 4-hour decant could possibly be too long, so that's pretty safe. The V94 and SW94 both require longer decants in the 10-hour range, as I recall, if you choose to serve one of those instead.

Is the 2000 Fonseca LBV filtered or not? If it is filtered it doesn't really need to be decanted, but like the tawnies it wouldn't hurt to give it an hour. If it is not filtered, then I'd give it 4-5 hours.

I would do the tasting for all of the Ports before dinner, because dinner will affect your palates and change your perception of anything that you drink afterwards. But then save the leftovers for drinking with dinner (and afterwards) so that everyone can see how they pair up with different foods.

What's for dinner, by the way?

[Eric Menchen]

What's for dinner, by the way?

Beef Wellington for the main course and a goat cheese cheesecake with red grape compote for one of the desserts. Guests are bringing the cheese course, some appetizers and snacks, and chocolates. I haven't decided on sides, but probably stuff I can make ahead of time and just throw in the oven while we drink the second flight and the Wellington bakes.

Thanks for all the info Glenn. I'll have to check on whether the Fonseca is filtered or not. I was also slightly tempted to make that a mystery taster. I was going to rent glasses so we could taste everything side-by-side. At less than the cost of one bottle, I figured that would make for a better experience.

[Glenn E.]

Beef Wellington for the main course and a goat cheese cheesecake with red grape compote for one of the desserts.

Yum! Definitely save some of the rubies for dinner... I'd bet that the LBV - likely the fruitiest Port you have - will go very nicely with the Beef Wellington. The Sandeman 40-yr old will probably go very well with the cheesecake.

Sounds like a great party!

[Eric Menchen]

Thanks. If I make another dessert it might be something like a chocolate tart that would go with the VPs, or maybe something with berries?

I checked the Fonseca. The label says, "This wine is intended to be served from the bottle, but if, through keeping, some deposit has formed, it should be decanted." I guess I had that answer all along. If I don't have enough decanters, that one will go decanterless.

[Eric Menchen]

PIng. Roy, Andy, someone? I appreciated Glenn's answers, but would still like a second opinion on:
- 1994 - Broadbent or Vesuvio (I've ruled out the SW because apparently I'm not getting one I expected)
- Decant times

[Roy Hersh]

The 1994 Broadbent is nothing special and would not be a good introductory Port to show friends. Go with the gusto and the 1994 Vesuvio may just be the finest bottle showing of the night. Trust me Eric, I have been following this thread closely, waiting to step in and offer a suggestion. However, often times when I do that ... it stifles discussion. So I was just waiting for the right timing.

Honestly, with this at your home, here is some personal advice:

Unless these folks are used to consuming serious quantities of alcohol OR understand how-to and will spit, then I would seriously suggest breaking up the flights differently.

Have one flight of four before dinner, the youngest Ports and bottle aged (vs. aged in wood). Then have dinner. After dinner and before dessert ... do the second flight of older Ports along with wood aged (Tawny/Colheita) to ensure they will not leave your home over-the-limit.

IF they ARE actually used to some quantity of higher octane wine, like Port, stick to your plan.

Decant the Vesuvio 1994 about 12-15 hours in advance of the event. You won't over-decant this young pup, that is for sure.

Don't bother to decant the Tawny and you can actually decant the Colheita the day before and put it back in the bottle. Rinse out the decanter and you can reuse it again.

Although often times I prefer older to young ... there are times where young to old makes more sense. Trying to achieve and introduce your friends to Ports, I'd do it this way:

VPs etc.:
- 2000 Fonseca LBV - open the day before and put pour back into the decanter and reuse it, even though no sediment.
1985 Smith Woodhouse - 10-12 hour decant time
- 1994 Quinta do Vesuvio as mentioned above
- 1970 Croft - six to eight hours at the most.


Tawnies & Colheita:
- Cálem 10 Year Old Tawny - three or four hours at most, and can be done the day before.
- Kopke 1987 Colheita (bottled 2006 I think) - I like to decant young one longer, half a day's worth.
- Niepoort 1980 Colheita (bottled 2000) - slightly less.
- Sandeman 40 Year Old Tawny - an hour or two to let some of the spirit integrate beautifully. I love this one!


AVOID CHOCOLATE ... creme brulee, berry tart, cheese cake, apricots and walnuts, peach cobbler, bread pudding or anything that avoids the beanus cocoaus.

I believe I have responded to each of your questions above. I would never have let you get any closer than this without a reply. Just my of course.

I hope you and Marijike blow your friends away with this presentation. Any thoughts as to penning a Guest Corner article with TNs and photos of your evening's tasting?

[Glenn E.]

Although often times I prefer older to young ... there are times where young to old makes more sense. Trying to achieve and introduce your friends to Ports, I'd do it this way:

VPs etc.:
- 2000 Fonseca LBV - open the day before and put pour back into the decanter and reuse it, even though no sediment.
- 1985 Smith Woodhouse - 10-12 hour decant time
- 1994 Quinta do Vesuvio as mentioned above
- 1970 Croft - six to eight hours at the most.

Roy, do you think that the '70 Croft will be able to stand up to the '94 Vesuvio served back-to-back like that? I would be afraid that anything served after the Vesuvio just wouldn't stand a chance... there just doesn't seem like there will be much left of anyone's palate after that bottle.

Back to the '94 Broadbent for a quick hijack... how quickly do you think that it is going to reach its peak? If it's really nothing special then I might want to start opening mine sooner rather than later.

[Roy Hersh]

In reverse order: I don't think that the 1994 Broadbent is in any danger of passing over the peak. I have had some good bottles and others that have not impressed me ... somewhat simple, due to the 2 grapes that went into the blend. It is by no means a bad VP, just not nuanced like a VP would be if it had more grape varieties in it. It will certainly hold for another decade with NO problem.


As to the 1994 Vesuvio followed by the 1970 Croft, I think the Croft is big enough that although it won't be in the same league, with a long enough decant on the Vesuvio ... it may be overshadowed, but not due to the enormity of the Vesuvio, but its brilliant primary fruit. I think it really will illustrate the divide between young and old very nicely and if done before dinner and the glasses not removed, the people can come back to their glasses at any time to retaste. I'd have zero issue doing the '94 first although if I just had 2 Ports side-by-side ... I'd do the 1970 first of course. Given the entire focus and dynamics of what Eric is trying to present, I think this is the best way to go about it.

Your mileage may certainly vary.

[Eric Menchen]

I'll reread this thread to do more planning and what have you. Given the above, I'm going to go with the 1985 Graham's and the 1994 Quinta do Vesuvio. I'm still leaning to do both flights before dinner, but not set yet. I'm going to start early on a Saturday afternoon so people have plenty of time to handle the alcohol. My guests include a sommelier, a meadmaker, their SOs, two people that love madeira, and two others that have Port not as much as I, but a lot more than the general population.

And yes, there will be plenty of photos taken. I'll consider the Guest Corner article.

[Derek T.]

Eric,

This sounds like a fun tasting

If you send me a PM with your email address I will send you this as a PDF...

placemat.jpg (77.43 KiB) Viewed 3523 times

Feel free to give me more details by email such as the names of your guests and the date and place of the event and I will add these to the placemat.

Have fun!

Derek

[Derek T.]

...and I will replace Broadbent with Vesuvio before sending the real thing

[Eric Menchen]

Thanks for the offer Derek, but I already found that program, as we had those at the first Gala. With google it didn't take long to find the program. I was actually going to configure it to put things on two rows, one for each flight, and probably print on US legal paper which is 14".

In other unimportant news, I just picked up two decanters at BB&B on clearance for $9.99 each Sure, they're not fancy, but they'll get the job done. Maybe I'll play with people and put the most expensive stuff in the cheap decanters and vice versa.

[Eric Menchen]

The 1970 Croft is out. That birthday girl and husband had a schedule change come up and will be out of town. Substitute tasters have been found, but not a substitute Port. I want to save that 1970 for when they are back. The options for the Port substitute are:

- 1963 Croft
- 1965 Graham's Malvedos
- 1975 Cockburn
- 1977 Warre

The Croft and Warre are 375s and we don't need full bottles; and I know where to get more of those if we like them, so that works in their favor. 1965 happens to be another attendee's birth year (although the date isn't this weekend), and I might be able to get another, so that works in its favor. Recommendations?

[Glenn E.]

The 1963 Croft is a superb Port. Not quite on par with the 1963 Fonseca, but even the comparison should tell you something.

Skip the Cockburn. From what I have heard and read, even the best 1975s are only mediocre.

[Eric Menchen]

Thanks Glenn. I know your bias :) , but I'll still go with the 1963 Croft.

As for that 1975 Cockburn ... I know that 1975 was generally an overhyped year, and I wouldn't buy one with some careful thought. But Roy rated the Cockburn as a bit of an exception from the rest at 91 points, and it was a bargain at $40. It is a gamble, but you've reminded me of that. I'll gamble on my own, not with my guests.

[Andy Velebil]

Somehow missed this one earlier, sorry

Since you don't need another full bottle then the '63 Croft 1/2 bottle would be perfect choice to show them what an older VP is like. The only concern is the 1/2 bottle format and how well it's held up. I've had older ones that were just fine, so just check it a couple times while decanting to make sure it's good and have a back up, just in case.

[Glenn E.]

Roy rated the Cockburn as a bit of an exception from the rest at 91 points, and it was a bargain at $40. It is a gamble, but you've reminded me of that. I'll gamble on my own, not with my guests.

Every Port has it's price, right? I'd say that $40 for a 1975 Cockburn does sound like a pretty good bargain!

I wouldn't even say it's a gamble at that price - for $40 you can hardly go wrong. But I don't think it would show well in comparison to the rest of your lineup, even against the Fonseca LBV.

I guess the down side of putting the 1963 Croft into your lineup is that you'll have two Crofts, so if that's a concern you might want to go with the 1977 Warre instead. (Skipping the Graham's Malvedos because you already have a Graham's.) The Warre also has a better chance out of a 375, too, since a little extra aging from a small bottle shouldn't at all be a problem for a 1977. As Andy alluded to, there's a chance that the half bottle might be enough to have put the 1963 Croft on the far side of the hill, so to speak.

[Eric Menchen]

No, just one Croft. I'm pulling the 1970 and replacing it with the 1963.

[Glenn E.]

Oops, right, that's why we're even discussing it! In that case the 1963 is the perfect replacement.