Following the recent FTLOP trip to Portugal, I have become a big fan of Colheitas, and brought some back with me to supplement my meager collection of the "least understood" port. Which has led me to a couple of questions:
Shipping old Colheita: Would you ship old Colheitas? For example, there is a store in Portugal which will ship me (in the US, California) Colheitas from the 1900's. Would you do it?
Storing Colheita: I have assumed that one may store Colheita just as per VP, and that it will get better in the bottle, or at least not get worse than when bottled. Do people generally agree with this?
Thanks,
Jay
Shipping and storing Colheitas
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Jay Powers
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Frederick Blais
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Jay, normally colheita do not improve in the bottle. Only a few producers do bottle their colheita with the quality/intention to let it evolve in the bottle. I can think of Niepoort, Krhon, Kopke and sometimes Noval.
As for shipping, personnaly I would not try to ship a bottle of 1900 oversee. I have no experience doing so and I'd not risk that amount of money and such a precious bottle to be damage by unappropriate handling during its trip. The cork is fragile and I'd say that the chances that the bottle leaks are greater. There is also the shock of trip that the wine can suffer. Young wines normally get over this, but I don't know about older wines.
As for shipping, personnaly I would not try to ship a bottle of 1900 oversee. I have no experience doing so and I'd not risk that amount of money and such a precious bottle to be damage by unappropriate handling during its trip. The cork is fragile and I'd say that the chances that the bottle leaks are greater. There is also the shock of trip that the wine can suffer. Young wines normally get over this, but I don't know about older wines.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
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Tom Archer
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The big problems with long distance shipping are that sea freight containers can get extremely hot if the sun shines on them, and with air freight there are considerable pressure differences - even in a pressurised cabin - that can put dangerous strains on old corks.
Temperature controlled sea freight containers do exist, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get small numbers of bottles shipped in one.
It would not be that difficult to fabricate a PVC bottle carrier with a sealable end, that would make it possible to keep a bottle at ground air pressure in an aircraft hold. The only problem is the expense of returning the empties...
Tom
Temperature controlled sea freight containers do exist, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get small numbers of bottles shipped in one.
It would not be that difficult to fabricate a PVC bottle carrier with a sealable end, that would make it possible to keep a bottle at ground air pressure in an aircraft hold. The only problem is the expense of returning the empties...
Tom
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Derek T.
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Jay,
I would say your best bet would be to keep close to the others on this site and do what Roy and Alex did on our recent trip. Hand carrying these old bottles is by far the best way to ensure they get the TLC they deserve. You may find someone from here that travels across the pond regularly who could become your personal courier, at least to get them over the water.
Alternatively, you can find someone to store them in VNG and pick up your stash to take home each year when you go on Roy's trip
Derek
I would say your best bet would be to keep close to the others on this site and do what Roy and Alex did on our recent trip. Hand carrying these old bottles is by far the best way to ensure they get the TLC they deserve. You may find someone from here that travels across the pond regularly who could become your personal courier, at least to get them over the water.
Alternatively, you can find someone to store them in VNG and pick up your stash to take home each year when you go on Roy's trip
Derek
It is a rarity that I disagree with Frederick twice in one posting.
Fred's concerns about bottle shock on old bottles as well as any propensity for Colheita corks to leak, is mostly unfounded if the bottle has not leaked before. There is a much greater chance of this due to pressurization issues in an airplane's cargo hold. So, I don't think that Jay has anything to worry about. I would suggest checking with the Portuguese wine retailer beforehand though, to ensure that they will insure your bottles ... so if there is any damage during the shipment, you will be made whole.
Fred, if these four well known Colheita producers that you mentioned, all make the quality and style that normally DOES improve in the bottle ... then how many can you think of that produce Colheitas that don't? In my humble opinion, it really matters most if the Colheita Port is fined and filtered, which determines if the Port will age well and even improve in bottle.Jay, normally colheita do not improve in the bottle. Only a few producers do bottle their colheita with the quality/intention to let it evolve in the bottle. I can think of Niepoort, Krhon, Kopke and sometimes Noval.
Although I prefer to hand carry rare and irreplaceable bottles of old Port, I have also shipped (insured) bottles and cases overseas as well. Choosing the right time of year is the key to doing so. Now would be a good time as the weather is cool and cross-Atlantic voyages have little effect on old Colheitas. Let's not forget that that vast quantity of young & old Bordeaux/Burgundy etc. are shipped to North America in exactly this way. Surprisingly few are shipped in temperature controlled containers!As for shipping, personnaly I would not try to ship a bottle of 1900 oversee. I have no experience doing so and I'd not risk that amount of money and such a precious bottle to be damage by unappropriate handling during its trip. The cork is fragile and I'd say that the chances that the bottle leaks are greater. There is also the shock of trip that the wine can suffer. Young wines normally get over this, but I don't know about older wines.
Fred's concerns about bottle shock on old bottles as well as any propensity for Colheita corks to leak, is mostly unfounded if the bottle has not leaked before. There is a much greater chance of this due to pressurization issues in an airplane's cargo hold. So, I don't think that Jay has anything to worry about. I would suggest checking with the Portuguese wine retailer beforehand though, to ensure that they will insure your bottles ... so if there is any damage during the shipment, you will be made whole.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
I noticed your entrapment scheme. I think you are spending too much time on line :blah: with Andy!
Besides, I have a feeling we won't be having issues in filling trips anymore, especially not at harvest time ... if we do those again.
Besides, I have a feeling we won't be having issues in filling trips anymore, especially not at harvest time ... if we do those again.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Andy Velebil
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Hey Hey Hey...no he is not :!: :!: :type:Roy Hersh wrote:I noticed your entrapment scheme. I think you are spending too much time on line :blah: with Andy!
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Jay Powers
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Guys, thanks for all the advice!
! Almost made me cry!
Asides from the shipping question, what I was pondering is how much Colheita should I have around, even though I may not drink it right away. I have ~10 bottles now and would like to expand my selection, but not if it will just go bad over the course of a couple of years. I think Roy answered that one, so I may take my chances with the shipping. Thanks!
Jay
I actually thought of ordering some before the trip, but I'm just not that organized outside of work! I was quite jealous of Alex though when he got his from Mario! And the smellDerek Turnbull wrote:Jay,
I would say your best bet would be to keep close to the others on this site and do what Roy and Alex did on our recent trip. Hand carrying these old bottles is by far the best way to ensure they get the TLC they deserve. You may find someone from here that travels across the pond regularly who could become your personal courier, at least to get them over the water.
Derek
! Almost made me cry!Having gone this time, I don't need any more encouragement to go again....bringing home rare ports would just be icing on the cake! I might invest in one of those nifty carriers that Roy had though.Derek Turnbull wrote:There was me trying to hook Jay into signing up for next years Harvest Trip and you go and give him ideas about shipping old ports safely from the comfort of his own home - you need to go on a marketing training course
Derek
Asides from the shipping question, what I was pondering is how much Colheita should I have around, even though I may not drink it right away. I have ~10 bottles now and would like to expand my selection, but not if it will just go bad over the course of a couple of years. I think Roy answered that one, so I may take my chances with the shipping. Thanks!
Jay
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Frederick Blais
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Roy, I agree on this. This is similar with the T-Cork process for LBVs. So for me, Colheita that are bottled to be drunk on release are from Dow's, Warre's, Calem, Messias, Barros, Feist, Burmester, Andresen, Quinta da Romaneira, Quinta do Castelinho, Offley. This is not meant to be an extensive list, just a few I have tried over the years that left me this impression from my taste!Roy Hersh wrote:It is a rarity that I disagree with Frederick twice in one posting.
Fred, if these four well known Colheita producers that you mentioned, all make the quality and style that normally DOES improve in the bottle ... then how many can you think of that produce Colheitas that don't? In my humble opinion, it really matters most if the Colheita Port is fined and filtered, which determines if the Port will age well and even improve in bottle.Jay, normally colheita do not improve in the bottle. Only a few producers do bottle their colheita with the quality/intention to let it evolve in the bottle. I can think of Niepoort, Krhon, Kopke and sometimes Noval.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
Burmester, Quinta da Romaneira
We can agree to disagree on these two producers. The former made some outstanding examples that certainly have aged well and the latter as well. I think when Christian Seely makes changes at Romaneira there will be no question that the Colheitas will be very ageworthy as well. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with that.
We can agree to disagree on these two producers. The former made some outstanding examples that certainly have aged well and the latter as well. I think when Christian Seely makes changes at Romaneira there will be no question that the Colheitas will be very ageworthy as well. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with that.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Jay
I occasionally have wines shipped around the world, usually one or two bottles at a time. Its quite expensive, but I'm not usually in a hurry to move the wine so I normally work with a shipping agent to just consolidate my one or two bottles into a larger parcel that the agent is moving for someone else.
I recall that there was someone on the Harvest Trip who regularly buys wine from the UK, stores it until he has a full parcel and then ships it to the US. You might be able to get some good pointers there, as well.
And the smell from those bottles was fabulous when I opened that packaging. The bottles I have at home are sitting on my "rarities and curiosities" shelf, still wrapped in their original packaging paper.
Alex
I occasionally have wines shipped around the world, usually one or two bottles at a time. Its quite expensive, but I'm not usually in a hurry to move the wine so I normally work with a shipping agent to just consolidate my one or two bottles into a larger parcel that the agent is moving for someone else.
I recall that there was someone on the Harvest Trip who regularly buys wine from the UK, stores it until he has a full parcel and then ships it to the US. You might be able to get some good pointers there, as well.
And the smell from those bottles was fabulous when I opened that packaging. The bottles I have at home are sitting on my "rarities and curiosities" shelf, still wrapped in their original packaging paper.
Alex