Event: 1985 Taylor, Graham and Dow Vintage Ports

[Stuart Chatfield]

Just had an '85 vertical of Taylor, Graham and Dow. I'm still perplexed by 85s and can't make my mind up. I feel they have a real staying-power, but somehow are not so enjoyable now. They could turn out great, but might fade away to be an odd mix of dried-out fruit with loads of tannins with no job left to do. (Perhaps like 60?) I have to say I still can't decide. I think Dow is best now, Graham will last longest but Taylor will end up the best. I agree with Tom's recent post saying that MB may have over-rated Grahams. However, he might be right about the Taylor. (However, I must add that I tend to be a Taylor/Dow fan rather than a Graham/Fonseca one, preferring the drier, simpler style). Sorry, still confused by this vintage and I don't think I've contributed much to the board by these muddled, indecisive notes.

Those 80s vintages are still like a Cinderella vintage, compared with the 60s and 70s. Its odd that only Dow 80 (and maybe Taylor 85) get top marks from me in the whole decade.


My notes, tasted at opening, 1/2 hours and 24 hours:

on opening:

T: Average colour for age, a little browning on the rim, well balanced, quite dry and cheek-drying tannins, distinctive Taylor nose

G: Very dark from start, a little browning at the rim, but younger-looking than T, very sweet, fruity, floral nose, but not too sweet to taste at this stage

D: Most advanced-looking (could have been a 70/77) very pale from centre of glass to rim. Very dry but not so as to be out of balance



after a few hours:

T: very little change, a little darkening of colour but a real stoical one this, taste has not changed in 2 hours

G: sweetness building, a little cloying, maybe too sweet. Very dark purple - not to my taste but I'd guess this has a real future

D: darkening so as to show a rim now, a Taylor-like tannic kick coming in. Very good now, the best of the three, but will it last?


24 hours:

T: has softened and very well balanced now, tannins still very evident but the whole picture with this is of a wine needing another decade, still a lot of fruit in there to match the Taylor tannins

G: sweetness has settled down - I'd now say this is not too sweet but has great depth and richness - like the Taylor I'd say not yet at its best. Not my style and not my favourite Grahams but really built for the long haul.

D: hasn't lasted the distance, rather multi-layered now with good tannins, but the fruit seems to have dried to rather sickly/cloying flavour. A bit like a ruby that's been in the decanter over a week. (being very harsh here, because this is very acceptable now, but I'm not sure this will be a good bottle in 15 years)


In summary, using the MB 5-star scale I'd say:

Taylor: ***(**) as in 3 now, might reach 5 in due course. Drink now-2025

Graham: ***(*) 3 now, might get to 4. Drink 2010-2030

Dow: **** 4 now, but not so much life left. At its peak. Drink now-2015

[Andy Velebil]

Those 80s vintages are still like a Cinderella vintage, compared with the 60s and 70s.

I agree, the '80s seem to be the lost decade in port. Don't get me wrong, there are a few gems that were produced, but most were just mediocre. IIRC, there was a lot of transitions happening in the Douro at that time which affected the outcome of many producers, new production techniques, etc. It wasn't until the 1994's where a lot of producers reestablished their reputations for quality. just my

[Derek T.]

Great notes Stuart.

Can I ask, did you enjoy this horizontal alone or with others?

I'm not suggesting that you may have sloshed your way through 3 bottles of VP on your own in 24 hours - I just wondered, if others were involved, would they be willing to have their notes posted here for comparison with your own?

Derek

[Al B.]

I tasted a Warre '85 at the Berry Brothers tasting on Thursday night (TN's to follow). What struck me with the Warre '85 was how advanced the wine was in its development. In colour it was closest to the '63 that was shown rather than the '83 or the '77.

The difference in development was quite astonishing. I really don't have a clue what's happening to these wines - but then I've always preferred the '83s to the '85s.

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

I agree Alex, the 80's that I've had all seem to be more advanced than their age. I've had 2 Taylors '83s and they both had very aged colors and were quite spirity. Seemed much older than the 23 years old that they were.

[Jay Powers]

I tasted a Warre '85 at the Berry Brothers tasting on Thursday night (TN's to follow). What struck me with the Warre '85 was how advanced the wine was in its development. In colour it was closest to the '63 that was shown rather than the '83 or the '77.

The difference in development was quite astonishing. I really don't have a clue what's happening to these wines - but then I've always preferred the '83s to the '85s.

Alex

I would agree that both the Dow, and even more so the Warre, are early maturing wines and ready to drink now. But I choose to look at that as a good thing.......Early maturing does not have a negative cannotation to me, just an earlier opportunity to drink! For the price, the Dow and Warre cannot be beat. Is the Fonseca better because it will mature much later? The only way to find out is to drink it when it does finally mature.

I have trouble suggesting that a Port which matures early, but ends up at the same level of quality (however you describe that), is somehow worse than one which matures later. It's just an opportunity!

Jay

[Stuart Chatfield]

Great notes Stuart.

Can I ask, did you enjoy this horizontal alone or with others?

I'm not suggesting that you may have sloshed your way through 3 bottles of VP on your own in 24 hours - I just wondered, if others were involved, would they be willing to have their notes posted here for comparison with your own?

Derek

3 botts in 24 hours

Well, er, no.... in about 3 days.

Yes, did it on my own, but over first two days used the technique of pouring off half a bottle into half bottles then putting it in a fridge that I keep especially at just over freezing point. The three halves to be used for the vertical then came out of the fridge on day three and were gently warmed to room temp to have at the same time. That's my max!

Might be doing a '66 one with others next weekend so I'll get their views.

This was a serious one with a view to future investment and no distractions allowed! On the basis of this I'll probably only get some Taylor's for drinking in the next decade (and maybe Fonseca - but I've not got any at home just now and 4 halves in a day would be too much for me!)

I see Alex went to the BBR do. I anyone going to the one on 30th November?