Dow's 1977 Silver Jubilee?

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:13 am

Any good? I heard that 1977 was an excellent year for port vintage.

Does anyone recommend a 1977 vintage port that is better than Dow's if it is to be?

Thanks

nicos neocleous · Post by **nicos neocleous** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Nicholas,

Good to hear from a fellow Port loving Nick! I am sure you will receive lots of great advice from the real experts on this site!

1977 was a pretty good year for Port. I have probably drunk about 10 bottles of 1977 Dow's over the last 6 years, so I do like it! Here is a recent tasting note from Aug '06:

1977 Dow’s – Rare Silver Jubilee label
I decanted this for 90 minutes, then poured this back into the now clean original bottle. We drank it 3 hours later. Deep strawberry red body with a clear rim. Plenty of fine wild herb and spices on the nose. Still youthful at 29 years old, with waves of focused fresh dates, well integrated alcohol. This bottle showed extremely well and must be around the 10th bottle I have drunk in the last 5 years. 95/100.

Other good 1977's include Fonseca and Taylors, though they are both still fairly youthful. 1977 Warre is perfect drinking at the moment and will stay on its peak for a few more years.

Regards,
Nicos [/u]

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:19 pm

Good to read a helpful post by a fellow from good cold Old Blighty!

Thanks for the advise and seeing that you've drunk over 10 bottles no doubt gave the impression that you certainly liked it!

I'm contemplating on buying a Dow's 1977 bottle from vintagewinegifts.co.uk at a cost of £89.99 - principally to drink on Christmas Day with a Romeo Y Julieta Churchill cigar, or maybe a Cohiba siglo or maybe a Montecristo. Choices, choices, choices! It is always useful to read what other port drinkers have to say and their experiences to give you a rough guide of what you might expect.

nicos neocleous · Post by **nicos neocleous** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:42 pm

My pleasure!

If I were you, I would use http://www.wine-searcher.com to find a list of the various sources in the UK. The price you have quoted to me is too expensive for this Port.

Also, I don't smoke so I can't comment on the '77 Dows matching with fine Cubans. However, Roy Hersh's wise words (paraphrased from memory) are that a fine Colheita or tawny is a great match for a good cigar, not a vintage Port. I am sure he and others will chime in here.

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:40 pm

Using the above searcher, I've found one for £67.99 inc delivery. I save around £25. How's that to you?

For an additional £40, I can get Dow's 1983 port for a total of £109.99 inc delivery from a shop in London called bibendum-wine.co.uk

Thanks

nicos neocleous · Post by **nicos neocleous** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:05 pm

Well done!

I have bought '83 Dows from Bibendum before, though I have yet to drink that particular source (in its original wooden case).

nicos neocleous · Post by **nicos neocleous** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:14 pm

Also, very importantly, the cheapest source may not necessarily be the best. Roy will shoot me if I don't mention some additional points here. When buying any Port, especially older Ports like the 1977, there are several factors to consider:

A digital photo may help in some of these points below.

1) Price
Look at the market prices on Wine-searcher, as you have done. If the price sounds too good to be true, it may be just that.

2) Provenance
Where has it been stored in its life? Who is selling it and why?

3) Fill level
Any Ports from the 1963 vintage onwards should have a fill level into the neck. If they don't they may have been inappropriately stored (too hot?).

4) Capsule
Are there any signs of seepage/leaks? Is the area sticky from leaked Port, or does it look too clean as if it has been washed?

5) Label
What type of label is it? Is it stained or shows reasonable signs of ageing?

I hope this helps.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:56 pm

Nicholas,

Great choice in a vintage port. However, I would also recommend an older Colheita or older tawny port (30 or 40 year). Personally, VP's and cigars don't mix too well

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:36 am

Nick,

Firstly, I have used Bibendum in the past and have been pleased with the wines that I've bought from them. They appeared to be wines that had been well stored and well looked after. If you ever have to travel in to London for business or pleasure then they would be one of the shops worth a visit, even if they are a little out of the way.

Secondly, I can also vouch for the fact that fine Vintage Port and fine cuban cigars do not necessarily complement each other as well as might be expected. While Andy's comments are based on personal experience, mine are based on observations of Andy's personal experience. I think his palate was still dead the morning after the cigar and didn't come back until around lunch time!

And as for your actual original question - I can't help there! I have tasted or drunk so few 1977's and don't recall having ever tasted the Dow '77. (But the Dow '83 is delicious and pretty close to having reached its perfect drinking plateau.)

Alex

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:44 am

bridgema wrote:I can also vouch for the fact that fine Vintage Port and fine cuban cigars do not necessarily complement each other as well as might be expected. While Andy's comments are based on personal experience, mine are based on observations of Andy's personal experience. I think his palate was still dead the morning after the cigar and didn't come back until around lunch time!

Can I just clarify that Andy's palate was in fact recovering from 30 to 40 glasses of port + 1 cigar so I think we may be being a bit unfair to the cigar here

Derek

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:24 pm

Interesting observations here. I have tried cuban cigars before with port, but nothing of the age I'm looking to buy (1977). In that respect, I can imagine why matured vintage wouldn't go well with a cuban cigar. Something of a lighter load, such as Tawny would be an interesting combination to try. Better shoot that down on my list....

I'm wondering that, if you drank matured vintage with a light and low bodied cigar (almost pale brown) would be the equivalent of a strong cuban cigar and Tawny. Vice versa?

Nico's points to look for when buying expensive port will be very useful. I'm thinking of paying a visit to London and have a hunt around.

bridgema, good to read a satisfied customer from Bibendum. I dropped them an e-mail earlier on today asking a few inquiries. Will report back my findings.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:12 pm

I think we may be being a bit unfair to the cigar here

Thanks Derek...how right you are. The problem was we didn't start drinking until about 11am that day...WAY too late :twisted: The palate started to shut down just like a young VP. Reminder for next trip, drinking MUST start each day no later than 10am

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:38 am

I received an email from Bibendum regarding Dow's 1977 port.

Many thanks for your query.

Unfortunately we are unable to trace the precise provenance of the port but I can assure you that we have bought them from a reputable source.

I have attached a photo of the bottles that shows that they are still in very good condition.

If you have any further queries, or would like to place an order, don’t hesitate to contact me.

Isn't what I've highlighted in bold a bit concerning?

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:44 am

Nicholas,

I have found that many merchants in the UK have a policy of not revealling the name of the source of their wines. I don't think they mean that they do not know where they got it, it's just that they will not tell you, for whatever reason they have.

I think the comfort you have is that this is a well respected merchant with a good reputation to protect. For that reason it is unlikely that they will have bought in wine that is from an untrusworthy source. You could always ask them to clarify what they would do in the event that you find the wine to be spoiled.

Derek

Nicholas · Post by **Nicholas** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:23 am

That's what I though Derek. Here's a picture of the bottles (although I'm only buying one!). What do you all reckon of the condition? Click on the thumbnail below to enlarge.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:09 am

Although I can't see into the necks due to the black bottles, there does not appear to be any signs of leakage or the cork protruding (due to heat damage). Looks good from the picture.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:41 am

Everything about these looks the same as the bottles I have of this wine, even the wear and tear on the labels.

In all of the above postings I haven't seen anything that would deter me from buying these if I wanted more of this wine.

Derek

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:00 pm

Nicholas,

I think Derek hit the nail on the head when he suggested that you ask what Bibendum would do if the wine was no good. Since you intend to drink this wine at Christmas, it seems a fair question to ask them.

Alex

David Spriggs · Post by **David Spriggs** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:42 pm

These look fine to me. The capsules are a little corroded, but that's not unusual. I doubt there is much leakage since the tax stamps don't show any staining. I would certainly buy one of these to try. These are equivalent or better than mine, a few of which showed some minor leakage and all of them have been great!

-Dave-

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:47 am

Dow 1977 is a fabulous and very youthful wine, in my top 3 of the vintage, which is saying alot considering what was produced in 1977. From the photos, grab 'em and like you've read, nothing to worry about with Bibendum. Nicos gave you some great tips as to what types of things to look for and questions to ask. Obtaining digital photos is always a very sound idea, for numerous obvious reasons.