Me thinks he doth protest too much

[Roy Hersh]

A bit whiney? What do you think, is he right?

http://www.windsorsquare.ca/archives/88 ... -with-port?

[Bert VD]

i like the normal size. this way i only open it with at least one other person and i can enjoy it a bit more developed on the second day as well. with half bottles that wouldn't be possible and they would get opened too often

[Jasper A.]

He is wrong, I can finish a full bottle alone

Serious mode: When i look at my shop, 1/2 bottles are sold way less than normal bottles.

A bit whiney? What do you think, is he right?

http://www.windsorsquare.ca/archives/88 ... -with-port?

[Moses Botbol]

Just because he is a p****, doesn't mean the industry should change. 375's have their place, but if you can down a bottle of wine, you can down a bottle of port too.

[John M.]

Actually, I sort of agree to a point...but without the winey attitude.

Number 1: Port ages faster in small bottles...shorter wait to nirvana.

Number 2: Sometimes when alone, a single bottle is too much. Call me a p****, Moses, but I'd rather have the option of opening two small....or better yet two different half bottles for contrast.

Number 3: They might indeed sell more. But I am not a marketer, but the price point on a VP can be daunting to someone on a budget.

[Michael T]

If the price of 375ml was 1/2 half that of a 750ml plus a couple of bucks for the bottle I would agree, but that is not the case. The price of a 375ml is usually around 60 to 65% the cost of a 750ml. I have been on the forum for a couple of years but I still feel like newbee with poor discriminating taste because I really can't taste much difference in a port that has been open for 2 hours versus 2 days if it is properly sealed back.

[Moses Botbol]

Number 2: Sometimes when alone, a single bottle is too much. Call me a p****, Moses, but I'd rather have the option of opening two small....or better yet two different half bottles for contrast.

That is a reason and place for 375's be it port or wine. I did not like his pretense that port is so strong that a bottle is so much. In alcohol terms, bottle port is like drinking a 1L bottle of dry wine (guessing). I am sure he does that all the time. Even better that a bottle of port can be finished the next or so if there's any remaining.

If it's just me drinking, I go for a Tawny or Madeira. VP is only if there's 2+ and I have advance notice. I'll open two bottles of VP for 2 people if we want really be drinking VP.

[Eric Menchen]

He is a little winey, but I'd be happy to find more 375s readily available. I've had a bunch (1980 GC, 1983 SW, 1997 Niepoort, ...) that I open when it is just myself wanting some Port. For that matter, I would make the same argument for non-Port. I'd like to find more high quality wine in half bottles, for a similar reason. The only wine you will find in many US stores in half bottles is cheap plonk, often in four-packs. A good store (and there are a few near me) do sell better wines in half bottles, like Ridge, Quinta do Crasto, and all sorts of French stuff. Personally I've bought a bunch of CdP in splits, and I have a little Bordeaux and Burgundy. It is interesting to me that you can find French first growths in splits. I guess for the French these are just single person lunch servings.

Accordingly, a 750 mL bottle is daunting, unless you have a big crowd around to enjoy it.

A big crowd? I find four people is plenty. If the Port is showing well, there will be nothing left. If it isn't quite stellar, I'll have a taste for the next day.

Despite its age ...

He keeps acting like this is an old wine. 2004? That's just a baby for Port, and even for a lot of other good wines it isn't that old.

[Glenn E.]

I would buy VP and SQVP in 375s regularly if I could find it for decent prices. I can down a half bottle of Ruby in an evening if it's ready to drink.

Tawnies I don't care as much, in part because they last so long once opened. I can't (normally) drink a half of Tawny by myself, but my wife and I can and do. But opening a full bottle just means I'll have a glass or two 3-4 times during the week and then the bottle will be empty. So it just isn't a big deal.

But really that applies to Ruby Port as well. It isn't going to go bad in 2-3 days... or even a week, really. If you can't drink a full bottle in a week then put it in the fridge... or just drink the milk you already have in the fridge.

[Eric Menchen]

Yes, Glenn and others make a valid point about the cost. The 375s I have bought were very inexpensive, which is not usually the case for retail listings where I see the price and think I might as well by a 750. And the same is true for that bottle of milk in the fridge too, Glenn. My milk often spoils, but the delta cost for a half gallon is very small compared to a quart bottle, so it makes economic sense to have a little spoil instead of buying the smaller size.

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

Maby I am not the right guy to ask this question.
Quality-wise, I started my portjourney from the very top, by drinking the top Colheitas from Niepoort.

And when I some Years ago started opening one bottle of great port for two friends one saturday night, lets say a Ni 1937, we had absolutely no problems finishing the bottle. In fact, when we have guests over now, I open 2 bottles!

Last saturday I opend a Magnum Port, (6 people where served), and when my bonus son came with his emty glass to find the bottle emty, I fetched an other bottle.

So quite honestly, one 75cl is to small for 4 people! Ergo one 37,5 cl is just an apetizer for one person.

[Andy Velebil]

For a couple or an individual, it is just too much to consume.

Hogwash! He obviously doesn't know this group

[Thomas V]

Hogwash! He obviously doesn't know this group

I concur!

[Roy Hersh]

Lots of interesting takes on this so far!

[Ronald Wortel]

I quite like 375s, and think they're especially great for young VPs. I had a couple of half bottles of Niepoort 09 that were great with steak. I would buy more of them if they were easier to find here...

[Scheiny S]

he's definitely whiney and is being too dainty about drinking port.
my budget only allows me to get Reserve Rubies and i've found a bottle is perfect for two if my company also likes it and we're staying overnight wherever it's been opened. if i'm with company who isn't into it ["It's too sweet. It's too thick." are common complaints] or we need to drive home, then a 750 is fine for 3 of us, with me probably still drinking half the bottle.
if we're drinking wine i probably want two bottles and we may not finish the second. so as far as alcohol consumption, i think my habits for port and wine are about equal.
for context, i weigh 100lbs.

[Tom Archer]

Port ages faster in small bottles...shorter wait to nirvana

Or is that just a much copied urban myth? Really need to try some magnums, bottles and halves that have all lain together in the same cellar since they were filled.

Popped a half bottle of D66 a month ago - barely mature..

There might be something in the notion, but I'm doubtful it's a major difference..

[Eric Menchen]

There might be something in the notion, but I'm doubtful it's a major difference..

Well, there are glass surface area differences vs. volume and relative cork size differences, so that could play into things. But the cellar can also maximize or minimize these. If the cellar is subject to very large daily temperature swings, all size bottles might be subject to the change. If the temperature swing is smaller, but still not negligible, the small bottles might change but the bigger ones with more thermal mass could be less affected. But if the temperature doesn't change at all, then the surface area vs. volume won't make any difference.

[Tom Archer]

Well, there are glass surface area differences vs. volume and relative cork size differences, so that could play into things. But the cellar can also maximize or minimize these. If the cellar is subject to very large daily temperature swings, all size bottles might be subject to the change. If the temperature swing is smaller, but still not negligible, the small bottles might change but the bigger ones with more thermal mass could be less affected. But if the temperature doesn't change at all, then the surface area vs. volume won't make any difference.

But is it really likely that any of these factors will significantly affect the contents of the bottle?

Writers in a multitude of fields are notorious for copying each other's mistakes, and in this instance my own experience, whilst not perfectly scientific, leads me to suspect that any difference in maturation rate between differing formats may be too small to be significant, and may not be detectable at all, at least until bottles begin to suffer cork failure.

[Glenn E.]

Well, there are glass surface area differences vs. volume and relative cork size differences, so that could play into things. But the cellar can also maximize or minimize these. If the cellar is subject to very large daily temperature swings, all size bottles might be subject to the change. If the temperature swing is smaller, but still not negligible, the small bottles might change but the bigger ones with more thermal mass could be less affected. But if the temperature doesn't change at all, then the surface area vs. volume won't make any difference.

But is it really likely that any of these factors will significantly affect the contents of the bottle?

I think yes. But... that comes with the caveat that bottle variation due to provenance is likely a much larger contributor to any perceived differences.

As Eric alludes, you'd need to have bottles stored in just the right cellar conditions for it to make a difference, and even then you'd need all sizes stored together to be able to test the theory. But given the discussions we all have in other threads regarding cellar conditions, I think it's safe to say that under the right conditions the size of the bottle could make a significant difference difference in how the contents age.

If I had to guess, though, I'd guess that most bottles fit into the first or last of Eric's scenarios. The swings are either wild enough that all bottles are affected, or small enough that none are affected. That middle ground sounds like a pretty specific temperature and timing range to me.