Fake bottles in circulation

[Glenn E.]

Thanks for the detailed follow up, Nuno! I'm not at my computer right now, but instead of deleting the other thread I will link I to this follow up. That way people can see the important steps you took to validate the bottles.

Well done! Too bad they were fakes, though. :-(

[Andy Velebil]

That's a lot of fake Port.

After some research work, I discovered that the forger have puted in the same auction some others bottles such as:

Wiese & Krohn, Reserva Particular 1900
Companhia Vinícola do Norte de Portugal, Garrafeira Reserva 1916
Niepoort's Blue Ribbon "Port of the 1896 Vintage"
Real Companhia Velha, Novidade de 1815
Burmester, Vintage 1960
Ferreirinha, Dona Antonia A Ferreira, 87
Borges, Vintage 1958, 1960
Niepoort, Imperador
Kopkes 300 years 1638-1938
Cálem, 1948
Constantinos, Vintage 1950, 1960
Niepoort, Vintage 1952
Corrêa Ribeiro, Filhos Lda, Vintage 1944

[Phil W]

Hi Nuno; I would like to echo Glenn's thanks for posting the detailed follow-up.
If you have further images of the fake bottles and are willing, I would like to include them in a small page I am currently creating of known port fake bottles. Alternatively if you could let me know (privately) the auction house details, and auction and lot numbers if you have them, I will contact them to see if they will allow me to use their images for the same purpose.
Thanks - Phil.

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Nuno; I would like to echo Glenn's thanks for posting the detailed follow-up.
If you have further images of the fake bottles and are willing, I would like to include them in a small page I am currently creating of known port fake bottles. Alternatively if you could let me know (privately) the auction house details, and auction and lot numbers if you have them, I will contact them to see if they will allow me to use their images for the same purpose.
Thanks - Phil.

If they've posted the pictures online, then referencing or using them for research purposes is within the "Fair use" doctrine and does not violate copyright.

[Phil W]

Hi Nuno; I would like to echo Glenn's thanks for posting the detailed follow-up.
If you have further images of the fake bottles and are willing, I would like to include them in a small page I am currently creating of known port fake bottles. Alternatively if you could let me know (privately) the auction house details, and auction and lot numbers if you have them, I will contact them to see if they will allow me to use their images for the same purpose.
Thanks - Phil.

If they've posted the pictures online, then referencing or using them for research purposes is within the "Fair use" doctrine and does not violate copyright.

Indeed, and since I created the VPID for non-commercial use, I expect the fair use doctrine should apply, but I always prefer to ask permission anyway; most people have said yes immediately, a couple have asked questions about use, and I have only not had permission granted in one case.

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

"Andy Velebil": That's a lot of fake Port.


I Can confirm the list of counterfeit Portwines!

I Am starting my own "Crusade". Primarely on eBay, but also on Portuguese websites.
Every time I see ports from the above mentioned list, I Write them an e-mail, and tell them NOT to sell.
Allan

[Andy Velebil]

"Andy Velebil": That's a lot of fake Port.


I Can confirm the list of counterfeit Portwines!

I Am starting my own "Crusade". Primarely on eBay, but also on Portuguese websites.
Every time I see ports from the above mentioned list, I Write them an e-mail, and tell them NOT to sell.
Allan

Please copy the pictures of the bottles and post them here. While I understand people will change what they fake, it will at least give everyone a heads up as to what bottles are being faked.

[Bradley Bogdan]

"Andy Velebil": That's a lot of fake Port.


I Can confirm the list of counterfeit Portwines!

I Am starting my own "Crusade". Primarely on eBay, but also on Portuguese websites.
Every time I see ports from the above mentioned list, I Write them an e-mail, and tell them NOT to sell.
Allan

Please copy the pictures of the bottles and post them here. While I understand people will change what they fake, it will at least give everyone a heads up as to what bottles are being faked.

While I understand pictures of legit bottles being potentially helpful to forgers, I think pictures of the fakes would be much less so, yet very valuable to those of us that regularly cruise auctions. I'll echo Andy and ask that you please do post if you have a chance .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U

[Nuno Nunes]

Hi everyone

First of all please note that i'm trying to be reimbursed from the plot I acquired with the auction house whitout legal proceedings, (whitch it woud take more time and expenses).
I do not know if Alan has resolved is situation, and in fact as he already been repaid ?!

After expressing at the auction my apprehension to the authenticity of the bottles, based on facts presented by Allan and other information obtained from other Port colectors and enthusiast.

Note that whem i lift my bottles, alredy Allan ad posted at this topic..."The Portuguese auctionhouse phoned me last night. I am getting a total refund, so All my expenses will be covered."...But I did not know that, and beyond that I already had paid the bottles.
This fact shows misconduct on their part, they already knew the scam. Furthermore they could check with the IVDP the bottle seals, before putting them to sale.
The action house was available to a assume the bottles, and creat a checking account whit the amount of the acquisition-related costs. I decline the idea. I want my money back!
I was told that, in order to get my money back i needed to display overwhelming proofs of my statement. So i contacted de RCV and arranged the report showed here a week ago. Evem the chairman of RCV, Dr. Pedro Silva Reis, asked me for names and photos of all I thought it might be fake, but first of all I should solved my situation with the auction in a rapid solution and without recourse to judicial process. There is a brotherhood between the producers of Port Wine, and they all get together weekly to discuss common factors between them. He would like to present these facts in these meetings and alert their counterparts. By the way this same meeting takes place all Thursdays.

The same day that i went to RCV and get the report, i handed it to the auction. They told me not to worry and that the situation would be resolved soon.
After that, and after a week the auction is elusive to my contacts and did not answer me how to repay me.

That means, at least for now, that i don't want any kind of confrontation whit the auction house.

The bottles that I THINK it could be fake ( I do not have a lab confirmation...and i just have bought the 1815 RCV...and this one i've confirmed). But i believe they are fake too, (I've saw the same bottles being offered for sale in a diferent website by one private seller, before being offered for sale at auction), and besides all the bottles have the same cosmetic, bottlewaxing, and the labels appear beeing made from the same paper, and too new for the age of the bottles.
But after some messages whit Allan (he purchased several bottles)...I AM ALMOST CERTAIN THAT THOSE BOTTLES ARE FAKE!! Are the ones that i mention in previous post.

You need to understand my reluctance to mention you more data in such a naked way. And at least until i know, how it is to be resolved the situation of other menbros of FTLOP, because it do not want to jeopardize the resolution of these whit the auction.

Be aware that after solved the monetary issue and after knowing that does not put into question the resolution of other menbros with the auction. I will fall on those with all the means at my disposal and with help from the RCV, and all others who are willing to contribute. Everything will come to public, photos, auction name and their collaborators, etc.

This situation is worthy of legal proceedings involving the Portuguese State. Falsifying a bottle seal of approval is equal to counterfeit money.
The State injured, RCV harmed, the action buyers...this is something big!!

In conclusion, i Will send fotos to anyone by private message. But by now just give me a few time and let me resolve this matter.

We should all thank Allan Engelsted Laurents, it was thanks to him that this situation became evident. (WE NEED TO TALK ALLAN)
I personally thank all FTLOP menbros the provided help and all knowledge, commitment and dedication to Portuguese wine in particular to the Port Wine

Cheer everyone

Nun(o\es)

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

1) i got my Money to day! After struggling for a long time. They wanted just to 'within 2 Month, to buy in their auctionhouse for the amount, that I purchased.
2) I made a promise, that I would contact IVDP and start a shitstorm on their Facebook-site
3) and that the Port-World is very small, and that I know of others who has been cheated
4) every time I wrote to them, I told Them about the more than 60 fake bottles (I bought 10 of them).

FinalIy they got tired.... And today more than 3 Month after the buy, I got my Money

found another Seller in Portugal, And I sent him a note tellng him, about the counterfeit bottles in circulation

Best of luck to You Nuno.
Allan

[Andy Velebil]

1) i got my Money to day! After struggling for a long time. They wanted just to 'within 2 Month, to buy in their auctionhouse for the amount, that I purchased.
2) I made a promise, that I would contact IVDP and start a shitstorm on their Facebook-site
3) and that the Port-World is very small, and that I know of others who has been cheated
4) every time I wrote to them, I told Them about the more than 60 fake bottles (I bought 10 of them).

FinalIy they got tired.... And today more than 3 Month after the buy, I got my Money

found another Seller in Portugal, And I sent him a note tellng him, about the counterfeit bottles in circulation

Best of luck to You Nuno.
Allan

Glad you got your money back. And now that you have can you please let us know what the auction company name is? I would never want to do business with a company that doesn't want to take back what were proven fakes (without a major fight) and I'm sure the rest of us here reading this won't want to give them our business either.

[Phil W]

Allan - glad to hear you got your money back; hope Nuno succeeds in this also if not done so already.

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

I took a picture of my fake ports.. if the file is to Big, then You Andy Can moderate?

I bought 10 bottles

If You want to check out the rest, they Can be found on the facebooksite owned by:
Oportunity Leiloes, check their October auction.

In the future, i will pay a lot more attention.

[Bert VD]

on the Niepoort bottles you can even see that the pattern of the dirt on the labels is the same (and thus printed on)

[Will ONeil]

With a little better inventory labeling/disclosure by the producer you could decrease the fraud for future bottles

Goes back to my post on Production numbers though I did not mention fake bottles at the time I was thinking about it

http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... =7&t=17260


Sorry to hear about your purchase

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

Seeing All 10 bottles, makes it easy to discover the counterfeit bottles, But Imagine having just one bottle, then it could have been impossible.

[Frederick Blais]

These are nicely done! On the Niepoort, you even have the proper bottles with the name in the glass. So this person must have drank the content and replaced it with somehing rubbish. I once bought a real bottle with fake wine in it, it was Mission Haut-Brion 1998. Everything was perfect but liquid was water with color. By further inspection, I noticed a slight line in the cork. My guess is the person removed the liquid throught a needle siphon of some sort and replaced it.

If you have access to some winery machinery, you can put gaz to lift the cork and put it back in with the proper tools, same for the foil.