shepherds 37
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
-
- Posts: 6393
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm
- Location: Longmont, Colorado, United States of America - USA
Re: shepherds 37
I'm thinking that Shepherd's was not the producer to start, and that the entire label was the result of branding at some later point.
- Glenn E.
- Posts: 8187
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:49 am
- Location: Sammamish, Washington, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Re: shepherds 37
I've seen weirder on perfectly legit bottles, including a Noval that was labeled either 22% or 23%.Andy Velebil wrote:Alcohol content is wrong for Port.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Importer labels to the US commonly have a 2% range, though it's usually 19-21% when labeled as such for Port.Eric Menchen wrote:I've seen bottles before with an alcohol range, although I can't recall a range as big as 2%.
I can't find the regulation right now (my search-fu fails me), but as I recall the actual regulation is pretty wide. Might be 18-22%? It's just that Port is normally 19-21%.
Glenn Elliott
-
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm
- Location: Holbaek, Denmark
Re: shepherds 37
A close up of the cork. Can't get it any better. The cork shows: Vintage 1937
Just a little left of the sealingwax.
My bottle does not have 'the string'.
Just a little left of the sealingwax.
My bottle does not have 'the string'.
- Attachments
-
- image.jpeg (118.74 KiB) Viewed 1049 times
-
- Posts: 1443
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:19 am
- Location: Texas, USA
Re: shepherds 37
I'm impressed you were able to get a picture, Allan. Though the glass that's quite a feat, thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
- Tom Archer
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Re: shepherds 37
Good photo - although I hope that line is not a crack in the glass that I can also see there..
Can you check to see if it's a Portuguese bottle? This is not a 100% sure test, as glass has been shipped around the world from time to time when there have been shortages, and not all glass makers sing from the same hymn sheet; but older Portuguese bottles often have a flat punt on the underside - that is to say, if you look at the bottom of the bottle you will see that it has a slightly recessed flat base.
If it has that, I would say that it is probably a genuine but maverick bottle; if not, then the jury is still out..
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Can you check to see if it's a Portuguese bottle? This is not a 100% sure test, as glass has been shipped around the world from time to time when there have been shortages, and not all glass makers sing from the same hymn sheet; but older Portuguese bottles often have a flat punt on the underside - that is to say, if you look at the bottom of the bottle you will see that it has a slightly recessed flat base.
If it has that, I would say that it is probably a genuine but maverick bottle; if not, then the jury is still out..
-
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm
- Location: Holbaek, Denmark
Re: shepherds 37
The bottle is intact. Only some old wax is sitting on top of the cork. Still dry...
I am not a bottle-expert. The bottom is flat, with some Numbers and letters...
The photo dosnt show much
I am not a bottle-expert. The bottom is flat, with some Numbers and letters...
The photo dosnt show much
- Attachments
-
- image.jpeg (91.86 KiB) Viewed 1015 times
- Tom Archer
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Re: shepherds 37
There are people who understand the various bottle base markings, but it's a bit of dark art..
However, that it's flat is a BIG plus, so let me hypothesise a little.
1) The background
The 1934/5 split declaration was the first major split of the 20th century and also the first of the 'new order' that had prevailed since the 1890s. Subsequent major splits, in 1947/8 and 1991/2 were followed by 'kiss and make up' declarations two years later, in 1950 (not very successful) and 1994 (very successful).
Was 1937 to be such a declaration? I think so, but WWII got in the way and spoilt the party. Some vintage '37 was bottled, but most got left in cask, with the result that '37 is arguably the finest Colheita year of the 20th century, and also quite plentiful in that regard.
2) What of the VP that WAS bottled?
When producers have had really good port, but no declaration to sell into, it is not that unusual for them to bottle a quantity for personal use. This stock often lacks full paperwork. My guess is that someone (probably called Shepherd..) got offered a bin of such stock.
3) How could it be sold?
With a little difficulty. The corks probably only say 'Vintage 1937' with no shipper mentioned. The loose string probably once held a bin tag, possibly of embossed lead. He would probably have received a stock of bottles that were totally anonymous barring the word vintage and date 1937 on the cork.
Without any info on alcohol strength, he had to guess. Not being a graphic designer, his label was a tad crude and he borrowed some formatting ideas from Noval.
4) Is it genuine?
It probably is port of the 1937 vintage, and was probably selected for it's superior quality. But also, it probably isn't a recognised vintage port.
- The next step is to drink it, and see what it's like...![Toast [cheers.gif]](./images/smilies/cheers.gif)
However, that it's flat is a BIG plus, so let me hypothesise a little.
1) The background
The 1934/5 split declaration was the first major split of the 20th century and also the first of the 'new order' that had prevailed since the 1890s. Subsequent major splits, in 1947/8 and 1991/2 were followed by 'kiss and make up' declarations two years later, in 1950 (not very successful) and 1994 (very successful).
Was 1937 to be such a declaration? I think so, but WWII got in the way and spoilt the party. Some vintage '37 was bottled, but most got left in cask, with the result that '37 is arguably the finest Colheita year of the 20th century, and also quite plentiful in that regard.
2) What of the VP that WAS bottled?
When producers have had really good port, but no declaration to sell into, it is not that unusual for them to bottle a quantity for personal use. This stock often lacks full paperwork. My guess is that someone (probably called Shepherd..) got offered a bin of such stock.
3) How could it be sold?
With a little difficulty. The corks probably only say 'Vintage 1937' with no shipper mentioned. The loose string probably once held a bin tag, possibly of embossed lead. He would probably have received a stock of bottles that were totally anonymous barring the word vintage and date 1937 on the cork.
Without any info on alcohol strength, he had to guess. Not being a graphic designer, his label was a tad crude and he borrowed some formatting ideas from Noval.
4) Is it genuine?
It probably is port of the 1937 vintage, and was probably selected for it's superior quality. But also, it probably isn't a recognised vintage port.
- The next step is to drink it, and see what it's like...
![Toast [cheers.gif]](./images/smilies/cheers.gif)
-
- Posts: 1443
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:19 am
- Location: Texas, USA
Re: shepherds 37
So just to clarify for my own understanding, you suspect this would have been bottled in Portugal in the rough timeframe of VP, and later sold off to "Shepherd" at some point down the line, rather than it being sold in cask to "Shepherd" and bottled post sale (and thus probably post war and probably as a young bottled Colheita)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
- Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16644
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Re: shepherds 37
As Tom mentioned, 1937 was a vintage that by and large was never bottled as VP. A fantastic year, so a shame we don't have lots of VP of it. I guess we can't complain as we've got lots of fantastic Colheita's instead. Anyways...by the time it was ready to bottle for VP, 1939, the war was well underway. Glass bottles were hard to come by, no one had money to buy, shipping was problematic, and many a company was struggling financially. 1937 was largely kept in wood as a result. The Casa do Douro ended up with a fair amount of it. Which was later sold off to those who wanted it.Bradley Bogdan wrote:So just to clarify for my own understanding, you suspect this would have been bottled in Portugal in the rough timeframe of VP, and later sold off to "Shepherd" at some point down the line, rather than it being sold in cask to "Shepherd" and bottled post sale (and thus probably post war and probably as a young bottled Colheita)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U
Off the top of my head I can't recall ever seeing a 1937 VP, not that there probably isn't a few floating around, probably in a producers cellar.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
- Tom Archer
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Re: shepherds 37
Yes, the bottle indicates a Portuguese bottling.you suspect this would have been bottled in Portugal in the rough timeframe of VP, and later sold off to "Shepherd" at some point down the line, rather than it being sold in cask
The word 'vintage' on the cork makes it more likely to be in the style of a VP rather than a colheita, so more likely to have been bottled in 1939/40.and thus probably post war and probably as a young bottled Colheita
I have Hoopers and Gilbert, but that's all.I can't recall ever seeing a 1937 VP
- Glenn E.
- Posts: 8187
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:49 am
- Location: Sammamish, Washington, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Re: shepherds 37
I agree. It sometimes seems odd that there are so many truely superb Colheitas from 1937, but put into historical perspective it makes much more sense. And at least for me, there's no doubt at all. 1937 is easily the finest Colheita vintage on record. There may be an odd bottling here and there from some other year that equal or even surpass bottles from 1937, but on the whole there's just no comparison. Most vintages are lucky to have 2, maybe 3 superb Colheitas. 1937 has easily 5-7, and that's likely because I haven't had the chance to taste more than that. Every single one that I've found has been fantastic, including Moreira (provided you give it a week-long decant).Tom Archer wrote:Was 1937 to be such a declaration? I think so, but WWII got in the way and spoilt the party. Some vintage '37 was bottled, but most got left in cask, with the result that '37 is arguably the finest Colheita year of the 20th century, and also quite plentiful in that regard.
I'm not as confident of this as you are, simply because back in those days there were a lot of weird things put on labels. While I agree with the earlier comment that "Port of the 1937 Vintage" would have been more normal than "Vintage 1937 Port" for a Colheita, this label does very clearly say "Matured in Cask" which you basically never see on a Vintage Port. Vintage Port is always matured in bottle, not in cask. So my guess would be as Brad said - it was probably bottled post-war and is therefore a "young" Colheita with 8-10 years in wood.Tom Archer wrote:The word 'vintage' on the cork makes it more likely to be in the style of a VP rather than a colheita, so more likely to have been bottled in 1939/40.
Glenn Elliott
Re: shepherds 37
The bottle is from the 1980s so I also think this is a colheita. To me this looks like a port which was "found" in a cellar and bottled for a wine merchant called Shepherd. It may even have been private family stock that was bought up and bottled rather than being something made by one of the it shippers.
I believe this is a genuine me bottle and look forward to hearing what it tastes like.
I believe this is a genuine me bottle and look forward to hearing what it tastes like.
-
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm
- Location: Holbaek, Denmark
Re: shepherds 37
The Shepherds's 1937 is now history. The cork was soft, and for the first time, the Durand didnt make it come out in one piece....Had vintage 1937 written on it.
The Corks condition tells me, that it was +50 years old
The port was very cloudy.
A bit like a colheita, sweet and fat. Nothing special. An ordinary port....
The Corks condition tells me, that it was +50 years old
The port was very cloudy.
A bit like a colheita, sweet and fat. Nothing special. An ordinary port....