How to determin originality?

[Henrik Lilja]

Hello
It has been a while since I last postet a topic - good to be back

I just purchased a Niepoort 1896 "blue ribbon". I am well aware that a lot of fake bottles recently hit the market.
But how does one determine the originality?

The bottle comes with a garantia-seal - but I need some kind of database to verify originality - that this number concrete number matches the "blue ribbon". I tried the IVDP website - but no luck. Does such a database exists?

I have also heard - that the original blue robbin never came with a garantie-seal - so if you have a bottle with seal it is for sure a fake??? Can anybody verify the rumour?

Does Niepoort have a database of their own - and is it public?

Hmmmm - it is not a good feeling, when you might bought some crap!

Best regards
Henrik

I would post some pictures - I just don not know how to?

[Andy Velebil]

Henrick
That bottle is fake. A ton of that recently came on the market, mostly from a Portuguese auction house.

See this thread
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... =1&t=39072

You can email me pics, click the email link under my name to the right, and I will upload them. Or use the "Upload Attachments" link below where you post a reply

[Henrik Lilja]

Pictures...

"The bottle is fake" - how can you say for sure? I'm well aware it might be - but how can you say for sure - based on which information?

Best regards
Henrik

[Andy Velebil]

I am sure if you compare the wax capsule to the other thread I linked you will see for yourself. These have recently come on the market and they are fake. Where did you buy it from, A Portuguese auction house? Use your instinct as even you think they are not right.

EDIT: I resized your pics so they are easier to see.

[Henrik Lilja]

From a private Portuguise seller - done business with him before. You can never be 100% with people - but I had a good feeling. Actually there is a possibility he didn't konw himself (seller) - but if he will not let the deal go back - I will naturally give this forum his name - so others won't deal with him in the future. But for now no name - he has been givin the chance to let the deal go back.

Best regards
Henrik

[Andy Velebil]

Ok to be fair...there is a very remote chance it is real. However, given how many fakes of these have come on the market in the past year or so the odds are this is fake. Do you have a picture of the top part of the capsule (from the side) and a better overall full bottle shot?

[Andy Velebil]

From a private Portuguise seller - done business with him before. You can never be 100% with people - but I had a good feeling. Actually there is a possibility he didn't konw himself (seller) - but if he will not let the deal go back - I will naturally give this forum his name - so others won't deal with him in the future. But for now no name - he has been givin the chance to let the deal go back.

Best regards
Henrik

Did that come from a guy named "Nuno"?

Most of these fakes are coming out of Portugal. I will venture a guess that the odds are about 99% that it is fake.

[Henrik Lilja]

NO

[Andy Velebil]

NO

That's good to hear it wasn't him. Does the wax capsule look like the one in the thread I linked about?

EDIT: look at the 1945 Taylor's thread next to this one. Does the wax capsule also look like that one?

[Eric Menchen]

And what does the bottom of the bottle look like?

[Henrik Lilja]

Uploaded new pictures.

I wrote IVDP and Niepoort regarding the garantianumber 925721. The exact same number has been seen on a other bottle (the picture with 3 bottles - the last one) - arrgghhh!!!

I am indialog with the seller - and I think he is quite surprised to. I do think he will take the bottle back - and I will get my refund. BUT - he must take it back to whoever sold him the bottle - and so forth.

I don't like to be fooled - but I am also sad that I won't taste the blue ribbon - to bad :-(

Best regards
Henrik

[Eric Menchen]

I couldn't find a G.R. maker's mark in a couple of listings, so I don't know about that bottle. It doesn't have telltale signs of recent manufacture, but it isn't really really old either. Given that other evidence is more clear, I'm not going to pursue this further right now. But if anyone is interested, here is one of a number of web sites that can guide you to dating an old bottle, albeit with a more American focus: http://www.sha.org/bottle/

[Henrik Lilja]

The fake NIEPOORT BLUE RIBBON bottle was sold from a Portguise guy named: Vitor Teixeira.
He did admit and accepted, that it was a fake bottle. I paid/transfered 625 euro. We agrred that I could return the bottle and get me money back (refund). But many month has gone now. He do not communicate with me anymore. He is a fraud. He cheats people. Very bad business-morale. Watch out - he has more than one fake BLUE RIBBON - and I believe he has other fake socalled rare port bottles.
Please make og communicate WARNING in your network - DO NOT - do business with this guy.
If needed - I can post a picture of the guy.
This is his facebook-profile: https://www.facebook.com/vitor.teixeira ... ts&fref=ts

[Frederick Blais]

I also sent the topic to Niepoort.

Also, coming from Dirk, THERE ARE NO GENUINE BLUE RIBBON. This was a label that was designed a long time ago but it was never used to release anything by Niepoort. THEY ARE ALL FAKE.

[Bradley Bogdan]

Thank you guys for the info. Hopefully this will clue in folks looking for older Niepoort that not all that's out there is genuine and to vet appropriately.


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[Will W.]

'Tis interesting to read that the Blue Ribbon label was, accordingly to Mr Niepoort, never used. A bottle of 'Blue Ribbon' was sold last week at an online auction in Cascais, outside of Lisbon, for in excess of EUR 800; the details are here:

http://oportunityleiloes.auctionserver. ... xclosed=no

There were a number of other older bottles at the same auction which were - how should I put this delicately, in order to avoid a charge of libel? - of unknown provenance.

[Eric Menchen]

'Tis interesting to read that the Blue Ribbon label was, accordingly to Mr Niepoort, never used. A bottle of 'Blue Ribbon' was sold last week at an online auction in Cascais, outside of Lisbon, for in excess of EUR 800; the details are here:
http://oportunityleiloes.auctionserver. ... xclosed=no

And that auction sites a bottle sold at Christie's:
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/wine ... tails.aspx
Ooops!

[Andy Velebil]

'Tis interesting to read that the Blue Ribbon label was, accordingly to Mr Niepoort, never used. A bottle of 'Blue Ribbon' was sold last week at an online auction in Cascais, outside of Lisbon, for in excess of EUR 800; the details are here:

http://oportunityleiloes.auctionserver. ... xclosed=no

There were a number of other older bottles at the same auction which were - how should I put this delicately, in order to avoid a charge of libel? - of unknown provenance.

That website sells all kinds of fake port. Or did at one time. Beware.


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[Andy Velebil]

Perhaps someone should email Christie's and point out this thread to them. If what they sold is a fake they should contact the buyer to get it back.


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[Eric Menchen]

Perhaps someone should email Christie's and point out this thread to them. If what they sold is a fake they should contact the buyer to get it back.

I just sent them an e-mail. Want to take bets on whether they contact they buyer?