Christies auction prices

[Eric Ifune]

WOW, just WOW.
2 bottles of the 1795 Barbeito Terrantez $19,600.
The JCA 1715 Terrantez $39,000.
1720 Borges Pather $19,600.
Two bottles of the 1795 "Black Seal" $39,000.
One of the 1802 Acciaioly Terrantz $7,963.
I had a dozen bids in, got shut out of all of them.

[Thomas V]

I'm just starting to get a little bit into Madeira but holy smokes that are some hefty prices. I am figuring these are some rare bottles. If you have time I would love some background on these vintages offered?

Is there a story behind the name "Black Seal"?

[Eric Ifune]

There's a long history on the "Black Seal" but I'm assuming the name comes from the ship it was imported on. Apparently was purchased in cask on the way to the US, but was intercepted by French privateers and sold in France. The original owner was forced to repurchase it in France (shades of Premier Cru!). He tried to get recompensated by the US government (being a French ally) but Thomas Jefferson turned him down. Bottled in the mid 19th century, it was passed down the family until these last two bottles.

The other wines are very famous bottles. They sold at multiples of estimated prices.

I have a bottle each of the Barbeito and Acciaioly Terrantez but paid a fraction of these prices a few years ago.

[Eric Menchen]

The original owner was forced to repurchase it in France (shades of Premier Cru!).

Sacré bleu!

[Reidar Andersen]

WOW, total shck... I got "rich" .. I have:

My stock:

12 Barbeito 1795 Terrantez, bought in State Liquor Shop in Norway 2000-2003 each for $ 788 ( Todays currency rate ) . Have receipt from my hometown store.

1720 Pather Bought from Patrick Grubb 2002 ( picked up in London by hand from Patrick ). GBP 1.000 . Have receipt.

1802 Oscar Terrantez. Bought 3 from a collector EACH $ 392 ( converted from Danish Crown ). No receipt, picked up at Copenhagen Airport.

Party anyone...

Have 3 CVM Terrantez 1795 also. One from Alex Liddell in 2003 and 2 from Garrafeira just after...

[Eric Ifune]

Quite the treasure trove there!

[Reidar Andersen]

Well, which auction was this.. Would like to study it... Thanks in advance...

[Eric Ifune]

Sale 12270, New York, Dec. 9th.
Fine Wine and Spirits, the 50th Anniversary Sale.

[Marc R]

My biggest takeaway from this thread was that we need a have a big party at Reider's house...

[Reidar Andersen]

Thanks Eric.. I printed out rest of the resultes and compared my notes...Another WOW WOW

[Alan Gardner]

1851 solera.jpg (15.78 KiB) Viewed 4744 times

I also struck out - not even close!

But, at least, the bottles seemed genuine - whereas I offer for consideration this current offering at Christie's London on-line
(can't figure out how to copy the image, but link is below - allows one to zoom in on the bottle to reveal a T-cork and what appears to be a destroyed selo)

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/chri ... 1-60/37986

Compare this with other image(s) of the same wine (actually bottle with label) - which show driven cork and total lack of selo.
I'm optimistic I can upload that at the start of this post (if not I'll add a link).

[Roy Hersh]

I knew of these bottles being sent in for this auction several months ago and whose cellar they came from. I just watched with amusement from the sidelines and did not even consider bidding in this one.

Glad to see how much money was raised.

That being said, the prices were ludicrous.

[Andreas Platt]

Hi Alan!

Could it be that you are violating copyrights when posting pictures downloaded from another website without posting the original source?

Seems to me as this is a cellartracker pic and I'm almost sure that this bottle's not yours and nor is the picture .

Cheers

Andy

[Alan Gardner]

Actually I got it from google images. Not sure where it originated, but indeed I've now checked Cellartracker and they have the identical picture.
No copyright infringement intended.

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Alan!

Could it be that you are violating copyrights when posting pictures downloaded from another website without posting the original source?

Seems to me as this is a cellartracker pic and I'm almost sure that this bottle's not yours and nor is the picture .

Cheers

Andy

You may want to brush up on copyright laws here. A picture posted on the internet isn't protected as you may think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andreas Platt]

http://copyright.com.au/about-copyright ... ght-myths/

[Eric Menchen]

Actually I got it from google images. Not sure where it originated, but indeed I've now checked Cellartracker and they have the identical picture.
No copyright infringement intended.

When I searched at Google images for "1851 leacocks solera" it showed the image in question as coming from cellartracker.com, and it states:

Images may be subject to copyright.Send feedback

[Alan Gardner]

OK I was sloppy here - although it seems (to me) unlikely that I exceeded 'fair use' (Section 107 of copyright act)
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Certainly not commercial use (unless somebody wants to send me money!). And a fair claim (IMO) that I was doing 'research' to establish whether the auction bottle was genuine (and FWIW cellartracker doesn't guarantee that its images are correct either).

But giving credit to sources is something that's always worthwhile - and the safest way to proceed.
Let's get back to the wines. As often as possible.

[Andy Velebil]

OK I was sloppy here - although it seems (to me) unlikely that I exceeded 'fair use' (Section 107 of copyright act)
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Certainly not commercial use (unless somebody wants to send me money!). And a fair claim (IMO) that I was doing 'research' to establish whether the auction bottle was genuine (and FWIW cellartracker doesn't guarantee that its images are correct either).

But giving credit to sources is something that's always worthwhile - and the safest way to proceed.
Let's get back to the wines. As often as possible.

Giving credit or linking to the original has nothing to do with copyright and does not affect it either way. If the picture came from Cellartracker, then it was uploaded by an unknown person to be used as fair use by others to use. That is how CT works. Here it is being used in a non-commercial way to comment on the subject and generally not covered by copyright laws. Also, auction houses that send out and put online pics of bottles generally lose their right to copyright due to they way in which they allow it to be used to comment upon and to be shared to increase awareness and thus sales of it. Why we all can post pics of bottles in auctions to comment about said bottles.

Press releases, as is their content, also are not covered.