Establishing my port collection.

[Thomas V]

Was at a fun tasting this past Saturday at Allan Lau that some of you might know. He is also on this forum sometimes and he was featured in a FTLOP newsletter once, when Roy visited Denmark last.

The theme was what we call "bog-water" port. Which are basic consumer ports with no vintage or age indication on the label and they must be more than 50 years old.

Allan has gathered these mostly from private people in Portugal. Some of them tasted very very good while others had way to much acetone in the scent/taste. But really only just 1 bottled was unfit to drink, which is pretty amazing taking into consideration that these are just basic ports like let's say a Fine Tawny or a Noval Black.

My favourite of the night was a Barros Vintage Character (basic ruby) that was mild, soothing, full of plums being just delicious - 92 points
Second favourite was the Barros Imperial Cuvee with was a fine tawny that have a very nice and thick consistency - 91 points
The third was the Mackenzie and fourth was the Niepoort Lacrima.

The Barros 40Yo bottled in 1982 was opened after the tasting a long with a Kopke 1984 and 1985 Colheita.

Here is a picture of most of the bottles in the lineup
The rest can be seen here. (I brought the Vezúvio as a blind bottle early on): http://imgur.com/a/8Fjir

[Andy Velebil]

Cool tasting. Not something you see or experience everyday that's for sure. Which one wasn't drinkable?


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[Edward J]

Interesting and educational for sure. I had an experience that was similar on Easter at my MIL's house. After our meal my mother in law brought out two bottles of "port" she told us she found them in the back of the bottom of the liquor cabinet and that her cousin and her husband bought them when they last visited. It had to be at least 15 years ago. I looked at them and smiled, and she asked if we would like to try a glass. I said OK , but we were not expecting much. Both bottles had been opened and were 2/3 gone, and neither one was a true "Port".

The first was a South African Tawny, and it was smooth, balanced with decent acidity and a short pleasant finish. Nothing to write home about, but under the circumstances, gee whiz. The next wine was a Berringer Cabernet "Port" from the '90's. It had oxidized completely into a tawny and turned a golden straw color. The nose was almondy, but the taste was like coconuts. Certainly not what I was expecting, but it was darn good. So, I'm inclined to grab a bargain priced bog-water just to see how they turned out. It's certainly easier finding out your $5 bog-water tastes like a swamp than opening up a corked 1977 Taylor.

[Andy Velebil]

Interesting and educational for sure. I had an experience that was similar on Easter at my MIL's house. After our meal my mother in law brought out two bottles of "port" she told us she found them in the back of the bottom of the liquor cabinet and that her cousin and her husband bought them when they last visited. It had to be at least 15 years ago. I looked at them and smiled, and she asked if we would like to try a glass. I said OK , but we were not expecting much. Both bottles had been opened and were 2/3 gone, and neither one was a true "Port".

The first was a South African Tawny, and it was smooth, balanced with decent acidity and a short pleasant finish. Nothing to write home about, but under the circumstances, gee whiz. The next wine was a Berringer Cabernet "Port" from the '90's. It had oxidized completely into a tawny and turned a golden straw color. The nose was almondy, but the taste was like coconuts. Certainly not what I was expecting, but it was darn good. So, I'm inclined to grab a bargain priced bog-water just to see how they turned out. It's certainly easier finding out your $5 bog-water tastes like a swamp than opening up a corked 1977 Taylor.

I would have no issue paying a small amount for a "bog water" Port just for the experience....the key word is small amount

[Thomas V]

They are all over the place on the Portuguese Craigs list for between 10- 35 Euros depending on the type and age.

[Andy Velebil]

They are all over the place on the Portuguese Craigs list for between 10- 35 Euros depending on the type and age.

Getting them to the US is the issue, unfortunately


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[Thomas V]

Cool tasting. Not something you see or experience everyday that's for sure. Which one wasn't drinkable?

It was another bottle of Borges that is not pictured here. But generally Allan states that both Borges and Barros really have a high chance of being very good as for these bog-water themed ports. (We call them this because of the murky look by the way)

They are all over the place on the Portuguese Craigs list for between 10- 35 Euros depending on the type and age.

Getting them to the US is the issue, unfortunately

You are most welcome to have them shipped to me and then picking them up later on in a due time? I hear rumours about Roy might come to Denmark in 2018. Perhaps you should join? We are doing a Fonseca full vertical in the Spring of 18' and I am also arranging a port fair in Aarhus on the 3 of February 2018. Lots of reasons to come visit in combination with a Porto trip

[Andy Velebil]

Cool tasting. Not something you see or experience everyday that's for sure. Which one wasn't drinkable?

It was another bottle of Borges that is not pictured here. But generally Allan states that both Borges and Barros really have a high chance of being very good as for these bog-water themed ports. (We call them this because of the murky look by the way)

They are all over the place on the Portuguese Craigs list for between 10- 35 Euros depending on the type and age.

Getting them to the US is the issue, unfortunately

You are most welcome to have them shipped to me and then picking them up later on in a due time? I hear rumours about Roy might come to Denmark in 2018. Perhaps you should join? We are doing a Fonseca full vertical in the Spring of 18' and I am also arranging a port fair in Aarhus on the 3 of February 2018. Lots of reasons to come visit in combination with a Porto trip

If I can swing a trip I will, it's been a long time since I was last in Denmark. But it would be a long shot during that time frame.

[Tom Archer]

In UK provincial auctions, you frequently encounter what I call 'kitchen cupboard' lots.

These are usually rather sad collections of bottles from house clearances of deceased people - bottles put aside for a 'special occasion' - that never arrived..

Wine, whites in particular, are often middle quality bottles that should have been drunk decades ago and are now either over the hill - or utterly undrinkable. If there's several port bottles in the lot however I will often buy them for casual quaffing at home. Although never intended for aging, it's surprising how enjoyable an ordinary standard ruby can be after a few decades in bottle. It's also noticeable that the standard ports from the Portuguese houses generally age much better than those from the British houses - I suspect differences in filtration policy account for the difference.

What you do learn from these lots however is not to keep bottles for a special occasion you haven't planned - else one day they may find themselves stuffed in an old cardboard box in the corner of a saleroom..

[Thomas V]

What you do learn from these lots however is not to keep bottles for a special occasion you haven't planned - else one day they may find themselves stuffed in an old cardboard box in the corner of a saleroom..

That is good advice. I tend to do that actually.


On another note I am hosting a beginners tasting in port in 2 weeks time. With the tasting menu looking like this, which port do you think these newbies will prefer?

I think I have gathered a pretty strong lineup for 8 participants paying 30 USD each including some tapas.

10YO White Sao Leonardo
20YO Ramos Pinto Tawny
1987 Wiese & Krohn Colheita
2011 Niepoort LBV
2011 Quinta do Portal VP
1980 Gould Campbell VP

[Edward J]

What you do learn from these lots however is not to keep bottles for a special occasion you haven't planned - else one day they may find themselves stuffed in an old cardboard box in the corner of a saleroom.

I've probably have acquired enough junk to keep the kids busy for a while going through it all. I imagine many things I treasure will end up this way, but not too many I hope. Some things they just have no interest in.

What I take away from this is, if you keep a special bottle for some unknown special occasion, it better be a special bottle, not some mid range white, get a Sauternes, or SGN, TBA etc.. I have started to assign certain bottles for specific special occasions but alas I have many more bottles than occasions. This could lead to a different way of thinking. Oh my, the pullets have started laying, open up the '63 Taylor! It's a working theory...how ever I've marked some that will outlive me and to selected children they will go.

I'm going with the Ramos-Pinto 20YO as the Port your beginning imbibers might like the best. The Niepoort LBV will probably show very well, and who knows perhaps the '80 GC will turn some heads, I know I'd easily pay $30 for that line up. Good job.

[Eric Menchen]

I haven't tasted that '87 W&K, but based on general reputation and your audience, that will be my pick.

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[Thomas V]

I'm going with the Ramos-Pinto 20YO as the Port your beginning imbibers might like the best. The Niepoort LBV will probably show very well, and who knows perhaps the '80 GC will turn some heads, I know I'd easily pay $30 for that line up. Good job.

I haven't tasted that '87 W&K, but based on general reputation and your audience, that will be my pick.

It will probably be one of those 2 you picked out. I am going to go with the Krohn.

Eric you really must try the 1987 Wiese & Krohn. It it very very good and I think it rivals and might even best both the 1982 and 1976. Big words, but I really enjoyed it last time I had it in the fall of 2016. Well see how this goes in 14 days time.

I have also decided to treat the guests to a small sample of leftover 40 Year Old Sao Leonardo I have left. See what they have to say about that one.

[Glenn E.]

Eric you really must try the 1987 Wiese & Krohn. It it very very good and I think it rivals and might even best both the 1982 and 1976. Big words, but I really enjoyed it last time I had it in the fall of 2016. Well see how this goes in 14 days time.

I picked up half a case of it from Premier Cru before they went out of business. 1987 is my anniversary year so I'm always looking for good Ports from that year.

It's very nice, but I wouldn't put it next to the 1976. I think the FTLOP average ratings for both are about right - somewhere in the 92-93 range for the 1987 and 95-96 for the 1976. (The 1976 has one very low member rating that's dragging its average down... throw that out and the Members' score would be about the same as Roy's score.)

[Eric Menchen]

I picked up half a case of it from Premier Cru before they went out of business. 1987 is my anniversary year so I'm always looking for good Ports from that year.

And I got a check in the mail from the bankruptcy proceedings for some of my Premier Cru purchases, which included at least a couple of W&K bottles. The check wasn't much, but was actually more than I was expecting.

[Andy Velebil]

I picked up half a case of it from Premier Cru before they went out of business. 1987 is my anniversary year so I'm always looking for good Ports from that year.

And I got a check in the mail from the bankruptcy proceedings for some of my Premier Cru purchases, which included at least a couple of W&K bottles. The check wasn't much, but was actually more than I was expecting.

So you got $2.00


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[Thomas V]

It's very nice, but I wouldn't put it next to the 1976. I think the FTLOP average ratings for both are about right - somewhere in the 92-93 range for the 1987 and 95-96 for the 1976. (The 1976 has one very low member rating that's dragging its average down... throw that out and the Members' score would be about the same as Roy's score.)

Perhaps I am too enthusiastic about the 1987 Wiese & Krohn, but I am really digging it. I rated it 93 points when I lasted tasted it in the fall of 2015. It is more than 1½ years ago since I had the 1976 and I didn't have the chance to make notes. So I only have my memories to drawn upon. And the difference between 93 and 95 points for me still being newer to rating and tasting is minuscule to say the least :)


I also haven't had them head to head, but I should really start to plan for a Wiese & Krohn colheita tasting. Perhaps from 1960 and upwards... which should include the 1976 and 1987.

What others in the period would you recommend?

1960, 1968, 1976, 1982, 1987, 1991, 2003?

[Glenn E.]

The 68 is very good, but seems to be a completely different style to me. Worth trying just for that experience, I'd say.

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[Thomas V]

Having had the 1987 Wiese & Krohn Colheita just 2 weeks ago. I am happy to report that is still really delicious and I rated it at a steady 93 points. I can't wait to see how it improves with more time in the cask.

Now onto business. I am starting to make some plans for the 2 tastings in my club for the autumn.

The 1st tasting the idea is to try a VP, Crusted and LBV (perhaps also a SQ) from the same house fairly close to each other in age. To get a feel for what the quality difference are between the 3 different types of ruby port. Wines will be served fully blind.

And example would be Dow's 2000 VP, 2000 Crusted and 2000 LBV and Niepoort 2011 VP, 2012 Crusted and 2012 LBV etc.

Which houses and years would you recommend?

I know the following have made crusted port recently.

Niepoort - Bottled in 2012 (09', 10', 11') also there is a bottling from 2011
Quevedo - Bottled in 2012 (08', 09', 10' & 11')
Fonseca Bicentenary - Bottled in 2008
Graham's - Bottled in 2012
Dow's Bottled in 2000 and 2012
Taylor's?
Churchill?


The 2nd tasting I call "All things Niepoort" and for that we will be joined by fellow FTLOP'er Allan Engelsted Laurants whom Roy visited during his last stay in Denmark I believe.
I want the lineup to be curious and funky with lots of old bottles of Nipoort and Allan has offered many of his fun and rare bottles, such as Senior, Junior, Presidente, Diamante, Tawny reserve, Lagrima etc. all with very old bottling dates. I will also add some VPs to the mix in form of a 1977, 1987 and 1997 (See the trend?) and am on the lookout for a good older Niepoort LBV. Any suggestions here? Also I want to throw in a colheita atleast 30 + years. Thinking about a 1967 as it strings on the VP theme....

[Glenn E.]

Which houses and years would you recommend?

Ugh... that's tough. All 3 can seem very much alike when young, though head-to-head you'd have a better chance of telling them apart. I'm regularly fooled into thinking that LBV is an SQVP provided it's served by itself (or only with other LBVs).

I would go for the oldest grouping that you can find. The three Dows from 2000 might be old enough. What you're trying to get is separation in the aging processes. To me that starts to become significant at about 15 years old where even an unfiltered LBV begins to show some age.