Colhieta Question, provoked by a Kopke 1982

[John Trombley]

Bought a 500 of this, and found that there are at least 3 bottling dates, 2003,2011, and 2015. Mine is now a fourth--the 2009, and the only one I can determine is a 500 ml.

CellarTracker is lumping all these releases together, even with the age variation and perhaps length in what the French would call 'bringing up". Is this a false issue that is bothering me, or does each release deserve its own identity, now that the effort has been made to get better and more complete information on our wine labels?

[Andy Velebil]

I've had this discussion with the CT folks in the past. The short version is it causes more headaches for people than it helps.*

There is an individual field within each wine where you can enter information about individual bottles. This is what I do. If I have various bottling dates of the same wine/Port I note the bottling dates or even fill levels (if they are low) in the bottle note field for my own reference. Mainly so I make sure to drink the older or lower fill ones first.


*As a side, most people have a hard enough time putting in the right Port into Cellar Tracker. I've reported in the past, and still do when I see them, major mistakes for Port in CT. Usually it is people re-entering a Port that is already in the system but using incorrect information. Example go to CT and type in "Vargellas" and see what pops up. You'll notice several incorrect entries, like BB&R and the very last one listed...."2015 TAYLOR FLADGATE Porto Taylor's Vargellas, Fonseca Guimaraens, Croft Qu" I have no idea what someone was thinking putting that one in there.

[John Trombley]

I completely agree, Andy, as a frequent writer to CT about things German and Portuguese and so forth and getting their reality check. Wouldn't it be great to have a world database of all or most commercial wine releases? I guess I was also asking if I should expect considerable differences between the different bottling dates, as especially referencing this producer. You and others might be able to speak to this also. What about the bottle size--is that unusual?

[Glenn E.]

I don't recall having ever seen a 500 of Kopke, so your bottle is unique for me in that respect. Lots of 375s and 750s, but never a 500.

As far as bottling date goes, yes it can make a difference. Sometimes a big difference - people who have tasted multiple bottlings of the 1952 Dalva Golden White Colheita generally agree that the 2006 bottling is the latest "great" bottling. But while the 2007 is still an amazing wine it just doesn't have the same ethereal quality to it, and the 2008s and 2009s just aren't as good. (Sadly, I only have 2008 and 2009 left.)

But it can also work the other way - more years in wood often makes for a better Colheita. I wouldn't expect much change (on an older Colheita) in just a year or two, but a 10 year difference can be a big deal. Consider the difference between a 30y Tawny and a 40y Tawny... it's the same thing.

[Andy Velebil]

I can't recall ever seeing a 500ml from Kopke either.

I know Rocha bottled their 2000 VP in 500ml and of course Dalva likes this size as well for some of their older whites now. Warre's Otima 10/20 tawny's are still in 500ml and Vallado and De la Rosa use them a lot as well. But it's not a size that is commonly used by most producers....thankfully as I'm not a fan of 500ml bottles.

[John Trombley]

I can't recall ever seeing a 500ml from Kopke either.

I know Rocha bottled their 2000 VP in 500ml and of course Dalva likes this size as well for some of their older whites now. Warre's Otima 10/20 tawny's are still in 500ml and Vallado and De la Rosa use them a lot as well. But it's not a size that is commonly used by most producers....thankfully as I'm not a fan of 500ml bottles.

Certainly not. It's too big for one or two and not big enough for four or more. And I never seem to sit down with 2 other port drinkers, exactly. But on the other hand, it doesn't fall through the cracks in my LeCache cabinetry, like halves (tenths) do. My answer is to Coravin, except how do you Coravin around a really heavy crust? Tricky.....almost like trying to transilluminate a bottle of Taylor....

[Andy Velebil]

I can't recall ever seeing a 500ml from Kopke either.

I know Rocha bottled their 2000 VP in 500ml and of course Dalva likes this size as well for some of their older whites now. Warre's Otima 10/20 tawny's are still in 500ml and Vallado and De la Rosa use them a lot as well. But it's not a size that is commonly used by most producers....thankfully as I'm not a fan of 500ml bottles.

Certainly not. It's too big for one or two and not big enough for four or more. And I never seem to sit down with 2 other port drinkers, exactly. But on the other hand, it doesn't fall through the cracks in my LeCache cabinetry, like halves (tenths) do. My answer is to Coravin, except how do you Coravin around a really heavy crust? Tricky.....almost like trying to transilluminate a bottle of Taylor....

How does a Coravin work with older Port that has a large amount of sediment?

[John Trombley]

It's not very easy. First you get what is callled the 'Vintage Needle', available with some Coravin kits, and also can be purchased. It is extra wide and has some filtration built into it hub but not much, and has an extra-large lumen (hole). It also has a special brush if it gets blocked. However, you want to let the bottle stand up for about 24 hours, if you can, and when you go to dispense be very careful not to stir up by abrupt tilting (especially at first, because you will want to tilt it rapidly to begin dispensing) or working the angles back and forth too much. Also dispense the argon as gently as possible so you don't stir up more crust again. I guess my idea is sort of like pretending I'm a Burgundy decanting cradle. As I said, not very satisfactory. Especially since you probably shouldn't lay the bottle down again once you're through, because you've made an extra-large hole and filled it with some pressure--you'll get some leaks--so make some stand-up room in your wine keeping unit.

Now tell me, one and all, how you see inside a dead-black port bottle without bribing your local x-ray technician? OH, ho, I think I'm the victim, or perhaps the perpetrator, of thread drift here...

[Eric Menchen]

I can't recall ever seeing a 500ml from Kopke either.
I know Rocha bottled their 2000 VP in 500ml and of course Dalva likes this size as well ...

I have 2000 Kopke Vintage Port in 500ml. I bought two of them from Wineworth. The bottles are tall, skinny, and squared off after the shoulder. They fit in my 375ml racks fine.

[John Trombley]

I can't recall ever seeing a 500ml from Kopke either.
I know Rocha bottled their 2000 VP in 500ml and of course Dalva likes this size as well ...

I have 2000 Kopke Vintage Port in 500ml. I bought two of them from Wineworth. The bottles are tall, skinny, and squared off after the shoulder. They fit in my 375ml racks fine.

Same size and shape as mine.