Fraudulent bottling dates?

[Houston Porter]

I just received a bottle of 1966 and 4 bottles of 1968 Colheita ports produced by Messias, all of which have an oddity that has me concerned.

My concern is the "Engarrafado em..." ("Bottled on ...") sticker that has been attached to the back label. .

On the bottle of 1968, the sticker reads "Engarrafado em 2016" but once pealed away, what's printed on the main label underneath is "Engarrafado en 1997." The 1968's have stickers stating "2017," but the label underneath states 1997.

...that's a pretty big difference, and unless they had extra empty bottles from 1997 that they filled from the barrel in 2016 and 2017, is fraudulent, no?

I can imagine someone exporting to/or importing into the U.S. figuring that our U.S. market is not very sophisticated, so we will simply look at the harvest year and nothing else, and so these look like highly prized bottles of very old tawny port. But at only 29 years old (and 31 years for the 1966), these bottles are overpriced, which of course is another clue that there is a fraud being perpetrated here. We regularly buy bottles of Burmester 1980-85 Colheita (bottled in 2014 & 2015), which are 30-34 year old tawnies for well under $100, where as these two bottlings of 29 and 30 year old tawnies were well over $100.

It will break my heart if it's Messias that did this, because I have always trusted that port lodges don't do things like this because they value their reputation above all else. Of course, I wouldn't put it past the regulatory authorities, either here or there to allow something like this, but it's still fraudulent. (You should hear about what our FDA will allow when it comes to labeling things "organic.")

If it is the importer (Kirkcrest Imports) or the retailer (JJ Buckley) than whoever handles our regulatory affairs regarding licensing should probably know about this, right?

No matter what, I'm getting either a deep discount or a full refund.

(I'm tried to upload photos - hopefully they come through.)

Any ideas?

[Andy Velebil]

Two possible causes;

1- They had old labels left over and didn't want reprint costs to make new ones for a small run of new bottles. Cheaper to use old ones and put a sticker on them.

2- They had old stock they wanted to sell as "fresh bottles." While nothing is ever totally out of the question, this would be improbable. Especially being so obvious about it.

Do the labels look like they've been on the bottles for a long time or do they look recently applied and in great shape? If these are recent bottlings they should have brand new corks in them. 20 year old corks will be somewhat obvious they are that old.

And you apply labels after filling the bottles, so they wouldn't have old empty and labelled bottles floating around from 20 years ago waiting to be use....well, they should any ways.

[Tom Archer]

OK - everyone screws up from time to time.

So they wanted to make some fresh bottlings. They probably had some old artwork available, so someone packed it off to the label printers and forgot all about the bottling date.

Back came the labels (probably the modern self-adhesive ones with silicone adhesives that nothing at room temperature will shift) - and ran the bottling line.

- Then came the expletives when they realised the error..

The overprint labels look pretty professional - I'll wager the poor sap who screwed up in the first place spent a miserable day or two sticking them all on by hand, one at a time..

The only alternative would have been to pop all the bottles, re-cask the the juice and start over.

In the days when label adhesives were water based, they could have stood all the bottles up in a tank of water, let the incorrect labels float off and start over. Today when the labelling machine throws a wobbly, or someone sets it up wrong (which is not that uncommon) they usually have to empty the mis-labelled bottles back into the feed tank and dump the empty bottles.

[Bert VD]

...and having to empty bottles because of a mistake also brings you a load of problems with taxes and regulations on alcohol. so stickers are a much easier and cheaper solution. i know that a lot of breweries also have stickers with different or additional information depending on the regulations of the countries they export to. it is much easier than having different labels for all of them. (and often regulations change or they have to make last minute changes)
these stickers look like they came from the producer and i would think they have the correct bottling date.

the wines being overpriced (especially considering this cheap label solution) is a different subject i guess.

[Tom Archer]

a mistake also brings you a load of problems with taxes and regulations on alcohol

Only if it's discovered after the product has been distributed.

[Houston Porter]

Thank goodness! ...and thank you to all of you who responded. Those are all viable reasons this could have happened, and have subdued my panic. (I'm doing a very old tawny port tasting in about a month and was excited not only to get this 1968 Messias Colheita, but to get it at what appears to be a good price - $125.)

Apparently, I know someone in Portugal who knows how to decipher the guarantee label so is going to investigate further for me. (Another friend in Portugal knows someone who may know someone at Messias, so is going to try to get an answer from their side.)

As far as the cork, I haven't uncorked, even unwrapped the top of any of the bottles yet, so can't speak to that. (Trust, it was hard to resist when I first got them in the mail, what with a couple "extra" bottles in the order.)

The big labels do look pretty new, so likely have not been on the bottles 20 years. And the over-label 1) looks professional, 2) seems to have been applied recently (it comes off easy, although being applied recently doesn't tell us much, and 3) is pretty obvious to any port lover who would be checking the date, so as someone pointed out, not likely to be an attempt at fraud. It's just odd that it's on both the 1966 and the 1968, what with their bottling dates being a year apart. Probably not a mistake in ordering labels, unless they did it two years in a row. But, their original bottling dates on the label are both 1997, so maybe they had old labels lying around. I didn't realize labels were so expensive that they would skimp out on just printing the proper labels, especially for such expensive bottles, and for what I would imagine wasn't a huge run of Colheitas. But then again, I have no idea about their profit margins and so if this helps them to continue being able to produce great ports, I'm not going to complain. ...I'll just panic from time to time when I don't know what is going it.

Anyway, thanks again for putting my worries to rest, at least temporarily. I truly appreciate all your insight.

[Houston Porter]

THAT all being said, any suggestions for other old Colheitas for our tasting?

Because my best friend and I believe that Graham's 1969 Single Harvest is our favorite, we are setting up a blind tasting around that one. (We had it in Vila Nova de Gaia three years ago but only just recently was I able to find a bottle in the U.S. that was shippable to California.)

We are also going to taste:
1968 Krohn Colheita (which we've had before and love),
1968 Messias
1966 Messias
1966 Kopke (Thanks to Glen's suggestion)
1980 Murmesters Colheita (just for comparison, because we absolutely love that one and because it is so inexpensive (for a 34 year old Colheita) want to see how it stands up)
S. Leonardo 40 years old tawny (maybe - have been wanting to taste this one for a while and figured with other 30-50 year old tawnies in the tasting, this would be a good time to open it.)

I'd love to add to the blind tasting a:
1966 Krohn, but the cost is a bit much at $325 for a CA shippable bottle,
1968 Quevedo, but haven't been able to find one in the U.S.,
1968 Quinta do Noval, but the only place I can find it has a half-case minimum, AND I don't think they ship to CA.

Any other suggestions?

[Moses Botbol]

Any other suggestions?

Something from Ferreira.

[Houston Porter]

Any other suggestions?

Something from Ferreira.

I can't seem to find anything from Ferreira, other than an 1868 Colheita in Portugal for $2K. Are they known for their Colheita's?

[Moses Botbol]

Any other suggestions?

Something from Ferreira.

I can't seem to find anything from Ferreira, other than an 1868 Colheita in Portugal for $2K. Are they known for their Colheita's?

They're 20 tawny is one of the best

[Messias Vigario]

Dear All,

I'm answering you in name of Messias as Export Manager of the company.

These two Messias Colheita Ports, 1966 and 1968, are sold in very small quantities in last years.

According the portuguese Port regulations we are obliged to get the bottling date in the label, we cannot use a mention like, by example, Bottling date: see capsule, and to print the bottling date in the capsule.

To produce labels we need a minimum quantity, and for these old Ports, this minimum quantity is the consumption for several years. So, for some wines we use a sticker with the correct bottling date. This practice is allowed by the Port authorities.

The photo that appears in prior comments appears as being original, and so you can trust in the date of the sticker.

We understand and agree that this use, mainly for expensive wines, is not very pretty. So, soon, and due to changes we are doing in our labeling line, the bottling date will be printed when labelling and we will stop with this use.

I hope to had answer to your doubts and really hope an excelent tasting.

[John M.]

Dear All,

I'm answering you in name of Messias as Export Manager of the company.

These two Messias Colheita Ports, 1966 and 1968, are sold in very small quantities in last years.

According the portuguese Port regulations we are obliged to get the bottling date in the label, we cannot use a mention like, by example, Bottling date: see capsule, and to print the bottling date in the capsule.

To produce labels we need a minimum quantity, and for these old Ports, this minimum quantity is the consumption for several years. So, for some wines we use a sticker with the correct bottling date. This practice is allowed by the Port authorities.

The photo that appears in prior comments appears as being original, and so you can trust in the date of the sticker.

We understand and agree that this use, mainly for expensive wines, is not very pretty. So, soon, and due to changes we are doing in our labeling line, the bottling date will be printed when labelling and we will stop with this use.

I hope to had answer to your doubts and really hope an excelent tasting.

Thank you Messias! That is some great info! Cheers!

[Moses Botbol]

It all makes sense now.

[Andy Velebil]

Dear All,

I'm answering you in name of Messias as Export Manager of the company.

These two Messias Colheita Ports, 1966 and 1968, are sold in very small quantities in last years.

According the portuguese Port regulations we are obliged to get the bottling date in the label, we cannot use a mention like, by example, Bottling date: see capsule, and to print the bottling date in the capsule.

To produce labels we need a minimum quantity, and for these old Ports, this minimum quantity is the consumption for several years. So, for some wines we use a sticker with the correct bottling date. This practice is allowed by the Port authorities.

The photo that appears in prior comments appears as being original, and so you can trust in the date of the sticker.

We understand and agree that this use, mainly for expensive wines, is not very pretty. So, soon, and due to changes we are doing in our labeling line, the bottling date will be printed when labelling and we will stop with this use.

I hope to had answer to your doubts and really hope an excelent tasting.

Many thanks for clearing that mystery up!

[Bert VD]

a mistake also brings you a load of problems with taxes and regulations on alcohol

Only if it's discovered after the product has been distributed.

even on production it is very regulated. but maybe not the same in all countries...

[Bert VD]

But, their original bottling dates on the label are both 1997, so maybe they had old labels lying around. I didn't realize labels were so expensive that they would skimp out on just printing the proper labels, especially for such expensive bottles, and for what I would imagine wasn't a huge run of Colheitas.

i wanted to answer that it is the small runs that make printing new labels more expensive. a hundred labels would probably cost twice as much as five thousand..
but Messias Vigario kind of mentioned that too. new digital printing methods are high quality and have a much lighter startup cost so small quantities become more affordable. better for the clients and better for the environment as there are also less leftovers. so the label issue has much less to do with the wine in the bottle than you thought

(my father is a graphic designer/printer doing labels for beer and whisky among other things)