LBVs (Late Bottled Vintage) Port - the skinny
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LBVs (Late Bottled Vintage) Port - the skinny
Is it better to buy LBVs from declared or non-declared years?
You make the call!
You make the call!
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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I prefer not paying attention to the Vintage on the bottle but more to the producer on the Label.
But referring to the question I'd say that from my experience declared years produces always good quality LBV as to off years can lead to the best as to some deceiving ones. The best LBVs I had so far where from 1990 and 1996 and the worst from 1998. On the other side, 1997 and 2000 LBV where good but nothing impressive came to my palate.
Since I'm not a big LBV buyer nowadays I just pick want I want to taste in a near future. If you want to buy for the cellaring, I'd say buy one, taste it and then evaluate it. Since LBV are much more cheaper than Vintage, it is something you can/should afford to do.
But referring to the question I'd say that from my experience declared years produces always good quality LBV as to off years can lead to the best as to some deceiving ones. The best LBVs I had so far where from 1990 and 1996 and the worst from 1998. On the other side, 1997 and 2000 LBV where good but nothing impressive came to my palate.
Since I'm not a big LBV buyer nowadays I just pick want I want to taste in a near future. If you want to buy for the cellaring, I'd say buy one, taste it and then evaluate it. Since LBV are much more cheaper than Vintage, it is something you can/should afford to do.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
- Derek T.
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I think it varies.
One thing that I have sometimes wondered is how the shippers go about selecting their LBV juice. Selecting wine destined to be VP seems fairly easy to imagine - pick the best grapes from known vines and stick them all in the same oak and cross your fingers for 2 years.
LBV is different, at one point in its life it has the chance to be VP but could be rejected for 2 main reasons (1) it isn't good enough to be VP (Mr Cruz, are you reading this!!) or (2) there is too much juice that is good enough to be VP so some has to be put aside for LBV to keep the customer happy and the VP price up in the clouds.
For wines that are de-selected at option 1 then I wouldn't expect a great LBV. However, wines de-selected at option 2 could be made largely from the same juice that went into a classic VP.
So, based on my assumptions on the selection method, my vote goes to buying LBV from declared years 8)
I would love to know if my assumptions are anywhere near the truth.
Derek
One thing that I have sometimes wondered is how the shippers go about selecting their LBV juice. Selecting wine destined to be VP seems fairly easy to imagine - pick the best grapes from known vines and stick them all in the same oak and cross your fingers for 2 years.
LBV is different, at one point in its life it has the chance to be VP but could be rejected for 2 main reasons (1) it isn't good enough to be VP (Mr Cruz, are you reading this!!) or (2) there is too much juice that is good enough to be VP so some has to be put aside for LBV to keep the customer happy and the VP price up in the clouds.
For wines that are de-selected at option 1 then I wouldn't expect a great LBV. However, wines de-selected at option 2 could be made largely from the same juice that went into a classic VP.
So, based on my assumptions on the selection method, my vote goes to buying LBV from declared years 8)
I would love to know if my assumptions are anywhere near the truth.
Derek
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I don't think you'll ever find a great selection of old LBVs on the market. Appart from the Symingtons, I don't know another shipper who bottle age their LBV for a few years before releasing them. Second, if they were releasing a few batches in time and you could be prooved that LBV can age and get better, maybe you'll not spend that much for a Vintage. So they want to keep the image that VP is the ONE to age and LBV is meant to be drank as you wait for your Vintage port.Moses Botbol wrote:I am yet to find older LBV's on the market. The selection of LBV's is much more scarce than VP's in the New England market.
Shooting from the hip; I'd think non-declared years would have the best juice since none of it would be utilized for VP.
Now with all the declaration of Single quinta, some of the juice meant for classic VP goes there, but yes probably some good juice that would have gone into VP in declared years goes into the LBV.
Next time you come in Montreal for the FTLOP tasting, I'll tour the SAQ with you if you want to buy some nice LBV, we must have 10+ differents brands.
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My experience is limited, but 1999 as undeclared Vintage should be very good forsome LBV (Niepoort, Noval, Silval Magalhaes, also Pocas imo). 2000 on the other hand as a declared vintage should be not so good for Niepoort or Noval (pretty disappointing for me in the filtered version) for example.
2001 is imo very good for Niepoort- I like this LBV very much. What is your oppinion about Niepoort 2001 LBV???
Michael
2001 is imo very good for Niepoort- I like this LBV very much. What is your oppinion about Niepoort 2001 LBV???
Michael
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I think I'll have to vote non-declared years are better. My reasoning is that, as above, 1999 was a very nice year for LBV, and 2000 was not so nice in my experience. 1996 (Niepoort) and 1995 (Warres) are a couple of additional data points in my experience.Michama wrote:My experience is limited, but 1999 as undeclared Vintage should be very good forsome LBV (Niepoort, Noval, Silval Magalhaes, also Pocas imo). 2000 on the other hand as a declared vintage should be not so good for Niepoort or Noval (pretty disappointing for me in the filtered version) for example.
2001 is imo very good for Niepoort- I like this LBV very much. What is your oppinion about Niepoort 2001 LBV???
Michael
But then the 1997 Grahams LBV was pretty nice when it was available.......

Jay
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- Andy Velebil
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Can only say I've had a couple of LBV's from a major declared years. The Taylor's 2000 was he best of their LBV's that I've had. However, for other producer's (Grahams, Noval, Niepoort, Warre, etc) I've been very happy with thier LBV's from non-declared years. (discalimer: can't say I've had more than one or two LBV's from a declared year from these other producers so I cannot acuratly compare them).
I agree that there probably is a greater percentage of the top quality grapes going into LBV in non-delcared years since the grapes aren't needed for a VP. Making the LBV's in non-declared years a notch better.
I agree that there probably is a greater percentage of the top quality grapes going into LBV in non-delcared years since the grapes aren't needed for a VP. Making the LBV's in non-declared years a notch better.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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- Andy Velebil
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Michael,
No, I have not seen it yet at any of the stores around me.
No, I have not seen it yet at any of the stores around me.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
- Derek T.
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I have had both the 2000 and 2001 Taylor's LBV recently. I think the 2000 is by far the superior of the two. The 2001 is, to my taste, more typical of the Taylor's LBV style - a bit too sweet and light in the mouth. The 2000 is a more robust wine and could possibly stand up well against a traditional LBV of similar age. How it will develop over time, if at all, is anyone's guess.
Derek
Derek
My LBV rule of thumb is to buy them from lesser porthouses in lesser vintages. I don't think I've ever had (not that I've had that many) a non-vintage port from Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, Dow or any top porthouse that I've really loved, but I have really enjoyed a Noval (not so much a less house, I know) and another that I can't currently remember.
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The Noval has been my favorite so far. It has more body than most of the others I have tried, and seems like it could develop into a classic the most out the usual players in the Boston market. The Ferreira degrades quicker once open than the Noval, but initally has a fabulous taste. It also tastes older than it's age, which I am finding similarly in their VP's.bman wrote:I have really enjoyed a Noval (not so much a less house, I know) and another that I can't currently remember.
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