grape hang times vs vintage quality (2017)

[Lindsay E.]

I just read the #100 FTLOP newsletter article about the 2017 vintage. One thing that struck me was how everyone interviewed mentioned the 2017 harvest being one of the earliest on record. In my experience with table wines, hot vintages with early harvests usually result in less complex wines with potentially flabby bodies. Obviously, in a hot vintage you can pick early to maintain acidity provided you have the phenolic ripeness, but those vintages usually see less complexity in flavors. I would assume that Ports from vintages with longer hang-times on vine would result in more complex and probably better wines provided full ripeness was able to be achieved. What am I missing here?

[Andy Velebil]

2017 was unique in that, due to the weather, the grapes matured at a faster rate but did so with balance phenologically. Just because it's early doesn't in and of itself mean things are unbalanced. That is not to say everything was perfect. Dirk mentions this in his statement. It is also something I have noticed in some 2017's...the raisined grapes. Those who either had state of the art machines to do it for them or were diligent on the sorting table were able to remove those raisined grapes as they came in and before they made their way into a lagar. Those who didn't have the machines or diligent in the sorting table have 2017's that have a very slight overripe profile to them. It isn't very noticeable, probably something most would never notice at all. It is apparent to an experienced taster when tasting side by side with others. How that will translate 40+ years from now, time will tell, but I don't think it will have much affect.

[Eric Menchen]

As I really like vin de paille, appassimento, and late harvest wines, I wonder if I would actually prefer some of these more raisined Ports. But in this case we are mixing concentration (and oxidized and/or dried fruit flavors) with fortification, so I don't know.

[Lindsay E.]

Andy,

Thank you for your commentary. You bring up some great points about phenolic ripeness being a critical component in determining when to harvest. I think what concerned me is not that the grapes would be picked too early to achieve phenolic ripeness. I'm more concerned about "complexity" in the final wine. With many table wines I have tried from different vintages, I've noticed that wines made in warm years where the grapes ripened in record time and were harvested say a month earlier than normal are often produce less complex wines in the longterm compared to other warm vintages where that ripeness was achieved more slowly and the grapes spent more time on the vine before harvest. Are you worried that the 2017s could suffer from being less complex than other vintages where the grapes received more hang time on the vine before achieving full ripeness and being harvested?

-Lindsay

[Andy Velebil]

Andy,

Thank you for your commentary. You bring up some great points about phenolic ripeness being a critical component in determining when to harvest. I think what concerned me is not that the grapes would be picked too early to achieve phenolic ripeness. I'm more concerned about "complexity" in the final wine. With many table wines I have tried from different vintages, I've noticed that wines made in warm years where the grapes ripened in record time and were harvested say a month earlier than normal are often produce less complex wines in the longterm compared to other warm vintages where that ripeness was achieved more slowly and the grapes spent more time on the vine before harvest. Are you worried that the 2017s could suffer from being less complex than other vintages where the grapes received more hang time on the vine before achieving full ripeness and being harvested?

-Lindsay

No, I am not worried. The complexity was there in the young ones I tried. If these were not fortified I'd be more worried as I tend to agree with you about hot vintages of dry wines and the lack of aging/complexity. Port, being fortified, doesn't stick to normal dry wine "rules". Perhaps a sorta close example would be 2003. A very hot year around the world for wine, including the Douro Valley. 2003 VP's are holding up very well and will continue to do so for decades to come. The same can't be said for a lot of dry wines which are already falling apart and/or becoming linear.

Not to mention this vintage was very unique in that it did everything a bit earlier. It was as if the harvest calender just shifted a tad to the left right from the beginning. It wasn't like something in the middle all of a sudden took off at a race pace. If it had all of a sudden took off mid-vintage I don't think we'd have seen anywhere near the declarations there were. When grapes all of a sudden take off mid-vintage the phenolics generally don't ripen correctly and things end up out of balance. One thing I've seen people miss is they walk into a vineyard and see nice plump grapes with good sugar levels in those hot years but they fail to see how underdeveloped the pips still are, as one example. The balanced phenolics are either there or they aren't.

And when all else fails, fall back on history. 1945 was quite a similar year and 1945 has turned out some legendary VP's that are still going strong.

[Eric Menchen]

And when all else fails, fall back on history. 1945 was quite a similar year and 1945 has turned out some legendary VP's that are still going strong.

Can you please supply some 1945 VPs for tasting to back up this claim?

[Glenn E.]

And when all else fails, fall back on history. 1945 was quite a similar year and 1945 has turned out some legendary VP's that are still going strong.

Can you please supply some 1945 VPs for tasting to back up this claim?

Seconded. Decant or it didn't happen!

[Andy Velebil]

Hah! I’m not THAT old...yet. But reports from the front back then said it was so.

[Roy Hersh]

Lindsay,

One thing not mentioned here that I had in my report was that the nights were particularly cool and resulted in providing the acidity where it would have been hard for the grapes to achieve given some of the crazy hot spells in the day. The cool nights during months of June-August made a major difference.

[Lindsay E.]

Thanks to both Andy and Roy. Gentlemen, your responses completely answered my question and educated me on a few differences between table wine and fortified wine. I also didn't realize that the 2017 growing season began so early. Thanks!

[Andy Velebil]

Lindsay,

One thing not mentioned here that I had in my report was that the nights were particularly cool and resulted in providing the acidity where it would have been hard for the grapes to achieve given some of the crazy hot spells in the day. The cool nights during months of June-August made a major difference.

While the Douro generally has those important cool evenings, cool evenings won't help against sun burnt grapes. The part that isn't widely talked about is the lack of rain also caused a thinner canopy on the vines in 2017. This caused the grapes to have less shade from the leaves and contributed to the raisining of grapes within the bunches, thus the overripe notes in some.

Of course site aspect also comes into play and in 2017 was very important. Are your vines are getting sun all day, only in the mornings or only in the afternoon? What altitude? Are they in a valley that doesn't get a breeze? Etc. Lots of little things which add up to be very important by the end.

The point I'm trying to make is you have to look at and put together a lot of small parts to see the big overall picture for the region. Most of these little details are not widely talked about by the mainstream press. I'd hazard a guess it's because most readers don't care to know that much about what went on and most writers don't want to end up with a multi page manifesto.

If you really want to know how a year is going, skip the winemakers and owners and go find their vineyard manager, buy them a beer and start asking questions. The very detailed technical side you will learn from a viticulturist about growing a simple grape will make your head spin.

[Roy Hersh]

Andy wrote:

It is also something I have noticed in some 2017's...the raisined grapes. Those who either had state of the art machines to do it for them or were diligent on the sorting table were able to remove those raisined grapes as they came in and before they made their way into a lagar. Those who didn't have the machines or diligent in the sorting table have 2017's that have a very slight overripe profile to them. It isn't very noticeable, probably something most would never notice at all.

I am curious as to which 2017's you found raisined in their flavor profile? I am not disagreeing, just curious as to which you noted this type of characteristic?

Thanks Andy.

[Andy Velebil]

Andy wrote:

It is also something I have noticed in some 2017's...the raisined grapes. Those who either had state of the art machines to do it for them or were diligent on the sorting table were able to remove those raisined grapes as they came in and before they made their way into a lagar. Those who didn't have the machines or diligent in the sorting table have 2017's that have a very slight overripe profile to them. It isn't very noticeable, probably something most would never notice at all.

I am curious as to which 2017's you found raisined in their flavor profile? I am not disagreeing, just curious as to which you noted this type of characteristic?

Thanks Andy.

TPF and regular Noval