Drunk Driving and Fake Science

[Roy Hersh]

This should make for an interesting discussion.

https://www.aier.org/article/drunk-driv ... e-science/ <---- will provide a unique op/ed kind of portrayal of equipment used for testing drunk drivers. I don't believe anyone wants to go through the rigors of being arrested for having one too many, nor seeing people needlessly slaughtered in drunk driving accidents ... but ... this article does raise some significant valid points, too.

Your thoughts?

[Andy Velebil]

This guy has not a clue as to what he's writing about. There are two totally different breathalyzers; Preliminary Alcohol Screening (PAS) and the "station" Breathalyzers, as he calls them. They are very different machines. Here's a very short primer on what is a long complicated topic with all kinds of variables.

PAS:
These the small handheld ones you see cops administering by the side of the road. They are not as accurate as the "station" one. Hence, the Preliminary part of the name. They should only be used in conjunction with Standardize Field Sobriety Tests (SFST's). The totality of the tests together should lead an officer to develop probable cause to arrest for DUI or not to.

Station one (for lack of a better name here):
The newer ones have been in use for many years and there isn't any calibration that should be done locally unless by a technician that has been certified to do so. These are quite accurate and very sensitive. I've seen them shut down during the clearing phase as they detected hand sanitizer that was sitting too close to the machine during a demonstration. It self detected there was something in the air prior to the breath sample being given and it shut down the test.

That all said, there is a lot of variables to both. Is the person on the "rise" or the "decline." Rise is simple, they just finished drinking recently and their BAC (blood alcohol content) is still going up (one the rise). Or did they drink a long time ago and their BAC is now on the way down (Decline). Are they burping or have they regurgitated recently, to mention two problematic issues. They should be observed for a period of time prior to the test.

The time between the road side tests and station test can be quite a bit depending on how far away one is from the station. So, for example, someone just stopped drinking and is pulled over. Their road side PAS is .100% but say an hour later they're finally at the station and now they blow a .150% A good attorney will argue this in court to show his client wasn't that intoxicated when stopped.

As far as the machines overall, these have been litigated in court for decades and are considered reliable. Are they perfect, no. Blood tests aren't perfect either. Related to the article, it seems quite simple. Someone didn't properly maintain them they way they should have. Shame on them. Poor maintenance locally doesn't make the machines themselves bad.

[Eric Menchen]

I thought the author ignored his own quote from the Times:

... most stops begin the same way: flashing blue lights in the rearview mirror, then a battery of tests that might include standing on one foot or reciting the alphabet. What matters most, though, happens next.

It seems to me if the person passes the field sobriety tests, end of story and everyone moves on. If you don't pass, then you probably shouldn't be driving. (Now we can debate if someone doesn't have good balance, etc., but I suspect that is why a collection of tests are given.)

[Andy Velebil]

I thought the author ignored his own quote from the Times:

... most stops begin the same way: flashing blue lights in the rearview mirror, then a battery of tests that might include standing on one foot or reciting the alphabet. What matters most, though, happens next.

It seems to me if the person passes the field sobriety tests, end of story and everyone moves on. If you don't pass, then you probably shouldn't be driving. (Now we can debate if someone doesn't have good balance, etc., but I suspect that is why a collection of tests are given.)

Correct. There's a collection of tests and it's the totality of those. There are only three scientifically validated SFST's. Eye nystagmus, walk and turn, one leg stand. Any other SFST's tests can be done, usually based on unique circumstances where the normal validated ones can't be or older officers who just don't know any better, but are subject to a good attorney shredding their validity in court.

Eye nystagmus is by far the best as a person can't control it. The others can be beaten, usually by chronic alcoholics who's baseline BAC is super high just to be normal. The record I've personally seen a couple decades ago was a guy who was walking, talking and did the SFST's very well. He blew just over a .400% BAC (he should have been in medical distress). Talking to him it turned out his daily routine was a total of three full bottles of vodka a day just "to feel normal."

[Roy Hersh]

When I posted this, I knew that Andy would be ON IT, like white on rice!

[Phil W]

When I posted this, I knew that Andy would be ON IT, like white on rice!

Off-topic, but can someone explain "like white on rice"? Guessing an American expression - wondering what the "white" is?

[Andy Velebil]

When I posted this, I knew that Andy would be ON IT, like white on rice!

Off-topic, but can someone explain "like white on rice"? Guessing an American expression - wondering what the "white" is?

Here's an online definition of it. It's just an expression that has been around for a very long time.

To be on or close to something.

the word does not carry any racist connotations, and refers strictly to the foodstuff [white] "rice", which is in fact entirely white.

[Phil W]

Off-topic, but can someone explain "like white on rice"? Guessing an American expression - wondering what the "white" is?

Here's an online definition of it. It's just an expression that has been around for a very long time.

To be on or close to something.

the word does not carry any racist connotations, and refers strictly to the foodstuff [white] "rice", which is in fact entirely white.

Thanks Andy - so just relating to the colour of the rice; I had visions of ancient references to cocaine, mayonnaise or who knows what!

[Janet Ainsworth]

Not all police station alcohol testing devices are created equal. For example, back in the 1980's, the Seattle Police Department decided to save some money by buying the cheaper BAC Verifier Datamaster in preference to the Intoxilyzer used by the State Patrol. Despite its impressive name, the Datamaster wasn't terribly accurate. Good defense attorneys could easily demonstrate the problems with the device, to the point where most DWIs were being pled out to negligent driving unless there had been an accident. In the end, the Datamasters were scrapped and better machines purchased, negating the savings of buying the cheapest machines to start.

The field sobriety tests have their own problems--most people over the age of 60 have significant loss of proprioception and balance, and anyone with physical limitations is likely to test as impaired when they are not.

The best test for intoxication that we have is a blood test, but there are political limitations to its adoption by law enforcement--it is invasive, requires medical supervision, and scare the dickens out of needlephobes. Ideally, a test could be developed that could accurately detect blood alcohol levels from a pinprick amount of blood--like we have for diabetic testing. But there is no one to lobby for it--the breath testing machine industry obviously has its own business to protect.

On a lighter note, the New Scientist had an interesting item recently about a guy who developed dizziness, sleepiness, and wooziness after a successful course of strong antibiotics. For a while, his doctors thought he was imagining the problem, but ultimately they ran some tests and determined that he was actually intoxicated--the antibiotics had wiped out his normal gut microbiota, and his gut was colonized by brewer's yeast. As a result, whenever he consumed sugar or simple carbohydrates, the yeast went to work churning out alcohol. The doctors dubbed his condition Auto-Brewery Syndrome.I kid you not.

[Eric Menchen]

To continue the tangent, I cook brown rice when I have the time, as it is more nutritious (more fiber). But the extra husk material requires 50 minutes of simmer time instead of the 20 for white rice. Red rice and black rice are also very tasty. I cook them upon occasion.