Wine Reviewers, Hogwash and The Like

[Tom Archer]

I believe one indicated that it was bottled in the fall of the 2nd year.

Dirk usually bottles the regular Niepoort late summer or autumn rather than the spring. What Rolf did when he was in charge is another matter..

[Tom Archer]

When it comes to VP being bottled for samples and when it is actually bottled for sale are almost always two different times. The samples are generally bottled earlier to be sent out to reviewers and to be opened at trade tastings and the like. Then a bit later (which could be months) the actual bottling runs are done.

There's a hazard there, and I suspect it applies to other wine regions as well and not just port. The best wine a winemaker can make is often tempered by the volume he has to produce. Producing sample bottles that are a little bit better than the market offering must often be tempting, especially when there's a little stock from a super cuvee to hand, and a regular wine that's looking a bit lacklustre..

[Glenn E.]

I believe one indicated that it was bottled in the fall of the 2nd year.

Dirk usually bottles the regular Niepoort late summer or autumn rather than the spring. What Rolf did when he was in charge is another matter..

IIRC Dirk took over with the 1994 vintage, correct?

From Niepoort's website:

2017 bottled June 2019
2015 bottled June 2017
2011 bottled June 2013
2009 bottled May 2011
2007 bottled May 2009
2005 bottled July 2007
2003 bottled Sept 2005
2000 claims to have been bottled Sept 2005, clearly an error on the website

Their website does not list 1997 or 1994. One can only guess as to why, but my suspicion would be that they no longer have either of those vintages available for sale.

So no, Dirk does not usually bottle late summer or early autumn. It appears that he does normally bottle later than other producers, but only by a month or two. IIRC most producers bottle between 18 and 20 months after harvest, which would be March to May of the 2nd year.

[Tom Archer]

IIRC Dirk took over with the 1994 vintage, correct?

Not quite. Rolf was reluctant to retire, and that caused a significant degree of friction. The first vintage that was properly Dirk's own is the 2000.

[Eric Menchen]

As Tom stated, I've never seen a CORK that showed a bottling date of 3 years from harvest, (UK or otherwise) ...

I have never seen a CORK that showed a bottling date of 3 years from harvest. For that matter, I can not recall ever seeing a cork that showed a bottling date of 2 years from harvest. I don't think I've ever seen a bottling date on a cork. I just went to the bin in my kitchen where corks end up. I found 8 from VPs. All had vintage years, but none had a bottling year.

[Roy Hersh]

Nope, Dirk took over for sure with 1987 for Port and 1990 with Douro wine.

[Roy Hersh]

Eric Menchen, I will admit it is pretty rare to find bottling dates on cork, but they do exist.

As for the old days, IVP rules used to be July 1st of the 2nd year after harvest to June 30th of the 3rd. Under IVDP, I believe not before 2005 regulation updates, but possibly more recently, the dates changed to allow for bottling to take place from 18-30 months. There was talk about freeing up producers to bottle as soon as their bottles were approved by the tasting panel; but IF that legislation passed, I have not seen it ... nor have I looked for that.

[Andy Velebil]

Nope, Dirk took over for sure with 1987 for Port and 1990 with Douro wine.

I think what Tom is getting at is Rolf didn't totally step away then to allow Dirk to make it all on his own, as often happens in family business.

Since Rolf gave away to the workers a fair amount of Dirk's 1990 Robustus as he was unhappy about Dirk making it, from what I was told. I'd say Dirk was not in charge of making Douro wines by 1990.

[Roy Hersh]

To clarify what was meant is that Dirk did make the 1990 Robustus as his very first DOC wine and although his father thought it was terrible and chastised his son; he was obviously quite wrong. I've had it now only a few times and each one has been GREAT. Rolf was clearly mistaken on that score. Rolf did not make table wines at all ... at least none I've ever heard about, and was against Dirk partnering with Dieter Bohrman to purchase Quinta do Passadouro in 1987 too.

[Alan Gardner]

That aside, the fact remains that even when bottled promptly after shipment, the average age of bottling would have been around six months later than is common practice today.

Which could still be done today, legally, if it actually had the effect that you think it has. But it isn't done today, even amongst those producers whose reputations are for long-lived Ports.

Ergo, the effect - if it exists at all - is inconsequential at most. If it actually mattered, the large producers would be doing it.

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I hope this is useful:

A number of years back I organised a tasting in Toronto of Fonseca1970 Vintage Port - 6 different 'bottlers' (including bottled at Fonseca). At the tasting, our guest speaker was Bruce Guimaraens, who made that wine (and indeed all vintages from the 60's through 90's). AND one of the English bottlings was indeed from 1973 (all others were 1972). In particular, I asked the specific question about the difference between a Vintage Port bottled after 18 months vs. 30 months. The answer ........

"I don't know - we've never tried that experiment!" The 'reality' is that the Shippers/Quintas have relatively few permanent employees. At certain times of the year (e.g. harvest, vinification, pruning, maintenance) they are extremely busy. At other times of the year they are less busy and that is when the Shipper (Fonseca in this case) 'chooses' to bottle the wine - nothing to do with 'specific' timing - just a consequence of when staff have time on their hands! That might suggest that English bottlings would similarly occur when time was available - rather than any 'quality' factor i.e. never late in the year as Christmas approaches.
Incidentally Bruce thought that the 1973 bottling was 'speculative' - probably later than that (1974) - I don't recall if LBV was a category back then, so there may not have been a 'legal decription' for anything 4-6 years old (after which it was ruby).

Edited to add: The cork on the 1973 bottling clearly stated bottled in 1973 (which issue was raised elsewhere in this thread)

I've moved since then and may have thrown out my notes. More likely I archived them (manually) with material I passed on to the Wine Club I used to be a Director of. Either way, I must rely on memory here, not documentation.

Totally off-topic but a favourite story from the same session:

If a vintage port is typically declared around 18 months after harvest, and (back then) all vintage ports are foot-trodden (unlike Rubies, etc which were mechanically pressed) - how do you know when to tread the grapes?????????
The answer (with a smile) - "We tread in hope".

[Phil W]

For that matter, I can not recall ever seeing a cork that showed a bottling date of 2 years from harvest. I don't think I've ever seen a bottling date on a cork.

I think is much more common than Eric and Roy suggest; it doesn't even strike me as unusual when I see it - perhaps 20%? This might somehow reflect my choice of bottles to open, or not...

[Phil W]

Example attached for Eric, if you truly haven't seen one before:

[Andy Velebil]

For that matter, I can not recall ever seeing a cork that showed a bottling date of 2 years from harvest. I don't think I've ever seen a bottling date on a cork.

I think is much more common than Eric and Roy suggest; it doesn't even strike me as unusual when I see it - perhaps 20%? This might somehow reflect my choice of bottles to open, or not...

It seemed to be more popular to print bottling date on older bottles. Don’t see it as much on newer things.