Buying opportunity

[Monique Heinemans.]

I am probably going to have a buying opportunity of some very fine VP of a deceased portlover.
It's not clear what the total content of the cellar is and there hasn't been a price setting, but could some of you give me advise of wether I should buy some of these (if provenance and price are good) as I haven't had most of them to try myself.

1960: Burmester
1962: Fonseca
1966: Kopke
1967: Fonseca
1970: Cockburn
1977: Croft, Dow, Smith-Woodhouse, Warre, Fonseca, Kopke, Delaforce, Rabello Valente, Pocas
1980: Smith-Woodhouse, Kopke, Delaforce
1985: Dow, Ferreira, Kopke, Sandeman
1987: Quinta do Romaneira
1989: Dow's Bonfim
1992: Fonseca, Smith-Woodhouse, Osborne, Kopke
1994: Quinta do Vesuvio, Fonseca, Taylor's, Delaforce, Quinta do Romaneira
1997: Graham's, Taylor's, Gould-Campbell, Niepoort, Quinta do Vesuvio

There is much more in this cellar, but these are the ones I'm particularly interested in.

Thank you in advance and who knows, maybe we can share one or two of these bottle's in the future

[Thomas V]

I'll mention the ones I have had that I would recommend if the price is right :)

1997: Graham's, Taylor's, Niepoort, Quinta do Vesuvio (Beware of the Niepoort. 50% have faulty corks = VA). The Vesuvio and Graham's are especially good
1994: Quinta do Vesuvio, Fonseca, Taylor's, Delaforce. The first 3 are all monsters and worthy of any cellar. The Delaforce is several tiers below but taste really good
1992: Fonseca
1989: Dow's Bomfim Not something you see every day for sure.
1985: Dow, Ferreira both very nice. The Ferreira almost tawnyish and mature. The Dow has more kick to it.
1980: Smith-Woodhouse one of the better from the vintage. Still a long time a head of it.
1977: Croft, Dow, Smith-Woodhouse, Warre, Fonseca can't go wrong with any of these. All excellent VPs especially the Fonseca. Top of the vintage for me.

[Al B.]

I am probably going to have a buying opportunity of some very fine VP of a deceased portlover.
It's not clear what the total content of the cellar is and there hasn't been a price setting, but could some of you give me advise of wether I should buy some of these (if provenance and price are good) as I haven't had most of them to try myself.

1960: Burmester
1962: Fonseca
1966: Kopke
1967: Fonseca
1970: Cockburn
1977: Croft, Dow, Smith-Woodhouse, Warre, Fonseca, Kopke, Delaforce, Rabello Valente, Pocas
1980: Smith-Woodhouse, Kopke, Delaforce
1985: Dow, Ferreira, Kopke, Sandeman
1987: Quinta do Romaneira
1989: Dow's Bonfim
1992: Fonseca, Smith-Woodhouse, Osborne, Kopke
1994: Quinta do Vesuvio, Fonseca, Taylor's, Delaforce, Quinta do Romaneira
1997: Graham's, Taylor's, Gould-Campbell, Niepoort, Quinta do Vesuvio

There is much more in this cellar, but these are the ones I'm particularly interested in.

Thank you in advance and who knows, maybe we can share one or two of these bottle's in the future

The 1962 and 1967 Fonseca will be Fonseca Guimaraens. The 1962 is very unusual so might be worth buying for that reason. The 1967 is more common but is a nice wine. The 1970 Cockburn is drinking really well at the moment.

1977 Croft and Delaforce are weak, but perfectly drinkable. 1977 Dow is frequently tainted by TCA and is a wine I will not buy for that reason - but when I have had the privilege to drink a claen bottle it is amazing. Smith Woodhouse, Warre, Fonseca are great wines. Rebello Valente and Pocas are very unusual to find.

1980 Smith Woodhouse is very good.

1985 is drinking nicely now, but I only know the Dow - which needs some more time in the cellar before reaching its peak.

1992 Smith Woodhouse is rare.

Buy all the Vesuvio, Fonseca and Taylor 1994 you can, if the price is right. These are great wines. I am less impressed by the 1997 wines, but that might just have been the phase they were in when I last tried them. Avoid Niepoort 1997 as this has a VA problem.

The other wines I've not tried so I can give any guidance on them.

[Mike J. W.]

Thomas V. and Al B. are pretty much spot on, but I will reiterate what Al B. said because it's important. The '94 Fonseca, Taylor's and Quinta do Vesuvio are head and shoulders above the other offerings you listed. Assuming that the bottles are in good condition and the fills are good, I would buy every single bottle of those 3 and the '77 Fonseca if you can afford it. After that, if you have any money left I'd go for the '70 Cockburn and '77 Smith-Woodhouse. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out, it would be interesting to hear.

[Monique Heinemans.]

Thank you gentlemen for your advice! Much appreciated!
The family is going to make an inventory of the cellar today and I hope to hear from them soon about the content of it.
I'll let you know what the outcome is.

[Andy Velebil]

I agree with Alex. At the appropriate prices all are worth it, except avoid 1977 Dow and 1997 Niepoort.

[John M.]

The above advice is all perfect on a per wine basis. Great to have this knowledge, but then there is the matter of the holdings and how much to pay. If an estate, the family is likely to just want to liquidate in as easy a way as possible. I know I would not want to be selling off the best portions of anything and then trying to get rid of the lower end stuff, there is just too much to do with estates and splitting things up is lots of work. My point is this, you may want to negotiate for the entire lot and get a greater discount. If cheap enough nothing wrong with acquiring the 97 Niepoort of 77 Dows if you are buying that many bottles.

I would look for 25% to 40% of retail overall (and you could factor the Niepoort and Dows as very cheap in your calculations)--if taken to an auction house they would get a little more but then you are taking one of 1,000 tasks off their agenda in one fell swoop. Others may have a better opinion on the percentage. Just to be clear, 25% to 40% OF retail, not OFF. So a $100 bottle I would price at $25 to $40.

I am excited for you...and jealous, too.

Good luck!

[Monique Heinemans.]

The above advice is all perfect on a per wine basis. Great to have this knowledge, but then there is the matter of the holdings and how much to pay. If an estate, the family is likely to just want to liquidate in as easy a way as possible. I know I would not want to be selling off the best portions of anything and then trying to get rid of the lower end stuff, there is just too much to do with estates and splitting things up is lots of work. My point is this, you may want to negotiate for the entire lot and get a greater discount. If cheap enough nothing wrong with acquiring the 97 Niepoort of 77 Dows if you are buying that many bottles.

I would look for 25% to 40% of retail overall (and you could factor the Niepoort and Dows as very cheap in your calculations)--if taken to an auction house they would get a little more but then you are taking one of 1,000 tasks off their agenda in one fell swoop. Others may have a better opinion on the percentage. Just to be clear, 25% to 40% OF retail, not OFF. So a $100 bottle I would price at $25 to $40.

I am excited for you...and jealous, too.

Good luck!

That's the advice my husband gave me too, but there are to many bottles in this cellar...

[John M.]

The above advice is all perfect on a per wine basis. Great to have this knowledge, but then there is the matter of the holdings and how much to pay. If an estate, the family is likely to just want to liquidate in as easy a way as possible. I know I would not want to be selling off the best portions of anything and then trying to get rid of the lower end stuff, there is just too much to do with estates and splitting things up is lots of work. My point is this, you may want to negotiate for the entire lot and get a greater discount. If cheap enough nothing wrong with acquiring the 97 Niepoort of 77 Dows if you are buying that many bottles.

I would look for 25% to 40% of retail overall (and you could factor the Niepoort and Dows as very cheap in your calculations)--if taken to an auction house they would get a little more but then you are taking one of 1,000 tasks off their agenda in one fell swoop. Others may have a better opinion on the percentage. Just to be clear, 25% to 40% OF retail, not OFF. So a $100 bottle I would price at $25 to $40.

I am excited for you...and jealous, too.

Good luck!

That's the advice my husband gave me too, but there are to many bottles in this cellar...

Ah...you need a partner or you acquire and liquidate what you do not want. How many bottles are there?

[Monique Heinemans.]

The above advice is all perfect on a per wine basis. Great to have this knowledge, but then there is the matter of the holdings and how much to pay. If an estate, the family is likely to just want to liquidate in as easy a way as possible. I know I would not want to be selling off the best portions of anything and then trying to get rid of the lower end stuff, there is just too much to do with estates and splitting things up is lots of work. My point is this, you may want to negotiate for the entire lot and get a greater discount. If cheap enough nothing wrong with acquiring the 97 Niepoort of 77 Dows if you are buying that many bottles.

I would look for 25% to 40% of retail overall (and you could factor the Niepoort and Dows as very cheap in your calculations)--if taken to an auction house they would get a little more but then you are taking one of 1,000 tasks off their agenda in one fell swoop. Others may have a better opinion on the percentage. Just to be clear, 25% to 40% OF retail, not OFF. So a $100 bottle I would price at $25 to $40.

I am excited for you...and jealous, too.

Good luck!

That's the advice my husband gave me too, but there are to many bottles in this cellar...

Ah...you need a partner or you acquire and liquidate what you do not want. How many bottles are there?

Lots!!

[Thomas V]

Thomas V. and Al B. are pretty much spot on, but I will reiterate what Al B. said because it's important. The '94 Fonseca, Taylor's and Quinta do Vesuvio are head and shoulders above the other offerings you listed. Assuming that the bottles are in good condition and the fills are good, I would buy every single bottle of those 3 and the '77 Fonseca if you can afford it. After that, if you have any money left I'd go for the '70 Cockburn and '77 Smith-Woodhouse. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out, it would be interesting to hear.

I agree that the 3 x 94's have huge potential. But the 77 Fonseca is stellar. It is also a matter of when the buyer wishes to drink these acquired bottles. The 94's will take up 20-30 years before they are peaking where as the 80's and 70's are in or close to maturity and prime drinking.

[Bert VD]

just so you know; if you get a deal when you buy more i might be interested too and i'm not so far away.

[Monique Heinemans.]

Thomas V. and Al B. are pretty much spot on, but I will reiterate what Al B. said because it's important. The '94 Fonseca, Taylor's and Quinta do Vesuvio are head and shoulders above the other offerings you listed. Assuming that the bottles are in good condition and the fills are good, I would buy every single bottle of those 3 and the '77 Fonseca if you can afford it. After that, if you have any money left I'd go for the '70 Cockburn and '77 Smith-Woodhouse. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out, it would be interesting to hear.

I agree that the 3 x 94's have huge potential. But the 77 Fonseca is stellar. It is also a matter of when the buyer wishes to drink these acquired bottles. The 94's will take up 20-30 years before they are peaking where as the 80's and 70's are in or close to maturity and prime drinking.

Well, of course I hope to become 80+ someday and still will be able to enjoy drinking a glass of good port, but other than that others have to drink them by then ..

[Monique Heinemans.]

just so you know; if you get a deal when you buy more i might be interested too and i'm not so far away.

Did sent you a PM

[Phil W]

That's a lovely problem to have! I guess what makes the most sense for you to buy might also depend on what you already have, as well as what age you prefer to drink, as well as how many bottles of each are on offer; but putting all of that to one side I guess the most helpful thing we can do is to pick out highlights, so I'll try to do that.

1962: Fonseca is very unusual, so I would certainly want some.
1967: Fonseca is not common and a good less-known year, so I would want that also.
1977: I would buy all the Fonseca (superb) and some of the Warre (though noting your recent experience with poor bottles I realise you may be less interested there); I would *like* the Dow but would only risk it at low price - it's superb when in good condition, but perhaps 30% are corked.
1985: I like the Dow.
1987: I don't know what the Quinta do Romaneira is like from '87, but the year seems very good from most producers, so I'd have this.
1992: I would take the Fonseca as best of the year.
1994: Several very good; I would take Quinta do Vesuvio and Fonseca.

If I wanted to add more to the above, I would likely next add the Cockburn '70, Graham '97, and perhaps the Rebello Valente '77 or Ferreira '85 to try.

[Monique Heinemans.]

Thank you for your advise Phil, it is very tempting to buy the whole bunch, but also a woman has to make choices once and awhile

As up to now I've asked the family to look for:
Fonseca 1977, 1992, 1994
Taylor 1994, 1997
Graham 1997
Vesuvio 1994
Smith Woodhouse 1977, 1980
Ramos Pinto 1994
Dow 1985

There are over a thousant bottles VP in this privat cellar, full boxes, half empty ones and loose bottles. The family has no clue about port. I've offered to help them, but they are somewhat reluctant to bring strangers over the floor, what I can understand (even more now with the corona hassle). So I have to wait untill they've sort things out.
I hope the deceased's administration was slightly correct, because then I get some nice bottles in my cellar, would be great..!

Thanks again for your advice, but I doubt about the F'62 and F'67 as I don't think I'm very into that old VP I think.

[Eric Menchen]

As up to now I've asked the family to look for:
Fonseca 1977, 1992, 1994
Taylor 1994, 1997
Graham 1997
Vesuvio 1994
Smith Woodhouse 1977, 1980
Ramos Pinto 1994
Dow 1985

Those look like good choices to me. Like others I would be interested in those two Fonsecas from the 1960s, but that would be more about curiosity than known good Ports. They would be a big gamble. I would also give the 1997 Vesuvio some consideration. I personally prefer it over the Graham, and it should be priced slightly lower. I've only have one note on the 1997 Taylor, but it was excellent.

[Thomas V]

1992: I would take the Fonseca as best of the year.

Over the Taylor's?

I have had both and the F92 is great, but for me the Taylor's is on another level.

[Phil W]

1992: I would take the Fonseca as best of the year.

Over the Taylor's?

I have had both and the F92 is great, but for me the Taylor's is on another level.

For me, yes, I would take the Fonseca over the Taylor - but I would accept that my general preference for Fonseca's flavour profile is an influencing factor.

[Monique Heinemans.]

So it has been three years now, since I asked for and gratefully received your advice about the cellar mentioned above and finally I have collected most of the cases/bottles I asked for.
As mentioned before, the family is totaly unknown in this world, so searching for the wright bottles in a crowded unknown cellar is not that easy for them and corona kept them away from each other for almost two years. Furtheron it wasn´t that much of a priority to them, so it took some time.
But I bought some nice VP and allready opened some bottles, they all were in very good shape, so I am very happy with my purchase. I will post some tasting notes also.
Up untill now I bought Fonseca 1977 + 1992, Taylor´s 1994 + 1997, Graham 1992 + 1997, Smith-Woodhouse 1980, Vesuvio 1994 + 2005.
I am still waiting for the Fonseca 1994, Smith-Woodhouse 1977 and Warre 1977 and have an option for Kopke 1985 if it's the Sao Luiz.

Thank you again!