How long do Tawney's last in the bottle?

[WJ Evans]

I'm curious how long a Tawney lasts in the bottle. I was doing some cellar re-arranging this morning, and realized I had a bottle of 2013 Taylor 30 Year Tawney that I had never labeled and had lost sight of.

Have I blown it and this should have been drunk 4 or 5 years ago?

To be honest, until recently, I didn't understand the difference in how VP and Tawney's were made, and as such, that one is made to age in the bottle and the other to drink fairly soon after release.

In general, what is the rule of thumb for how long aged Tawney's can be stored in a cellar?

[Mike J. W.]

I imagine you'll get lots of different answers on this, but most would probably say drink sooner rather than later. 8 years in bottle isn't terrible. I've had some colheitas that were bottled back in the mid 90's that were still nice and fresh and some were a little tired. Different drinking experiences, but I liked them both. I think your bottle will be fine.

[Eric Menchen]

General answer: Drink them sooner than later, and I agree with Mike.

Caveat answer: Some people like their tawnies with a little age, and some producers make tawnies that age better than others. Niepoort comes to mind, or maybe that's just because Dirk is one of the people that thinks they can age and improve in the bottle. Next up, Glenn ...

[Glenn E.]

That covers it pretty well.

The only thing I really have to add is that Taylor isn't known for their tawnies, so I would probably normally drink those sooner than I might, say, a Kopke. But as a general rule of thumb I find that 5-8 years of bottle age is fine for just about any 30 or 40 year old tawny (or Colheita), so yours should still be fine. I'd probably plan to drink it soon, though.

[Andy Velebil]

Almost all producers/winemakers say they are best consumed within a few years of bottling. For the experience they’ve intended you to have with it.

That does not mean they go bad, they just start to change a bit with time in bottle. Some people like that, some not so much.

There are some General exceptions, Niepoort being the notable one.

And I’ll be at odds with Glenn. Taylor’s makes some wonderful tawny’s and are very well known for them.

[WJ Evans]

Thanks guys. I'm going to hit that 30 year in the very near future. Until I did the cellar cleanup this weekend, completely forgot I had it. Either my wife or mother in law bought it for me a few years back I think. It was mixed in with my VPs.

As to Taylor's Tawney's.

I know I'm a noob to anything but low end port, but to my noob palate, I thought the Taylor's 1863 was awesome.

[Eric Ifune]

That 1863 belonged to Wiese & Krohn until Taylor Fladgate bought them out a few years ago. Wiese & Krohn were renowned for their wood aged Ports.

[Glenn E.]

I thought the Taylor's 1863 was awesome.

As Erik said, that's a Taylor in name only. The 1863 and both 1896's (white and tawny) were all acquired when TFP purchased W&K.

I'll concede to Andy that the more recent Taylor Single Harvest Tawnies (which are also mostly acquired Krohn stock) have been pretty excellent. I was referring to their TWAIOA blends when I said that they aren't known for their tawnies. And what I mean by that is that their tawnies have benefited from being associated with the Taylor name, not vice versa. They've been average at best for years, which I assume played a part in their decision to purchase W&K which was known for their tawnies.

[WJ Evans]

Are some of the other more recent releases, the 50 year old single harvests they are releasing each year, from what they acquired or Taylor's proper? I was considering buying a couple, but the reviews, including the FLOP tasting notes seems so/so.

[Glenn E.]

My understanding is that they are all Krohn stock, but Andy has been told that some of them are actually Taylor stock.

Either way, I feel that Taylor has priced them out of the normal range for the market so I've only purchased a few from the secondary market.

[Mike K.]

I've bought a few of them when I've happened across a discount. The quality is inconsistent. Some are excellent, while others are 'merely' very nice. Agreed though that they need to be spectacular at that price point. My last purchase was the recent 1961 release which is quite excellent.

[Eric Ifune]

I'll concede to Andy that the more recent Taylor Single Harvest Tawnies (which are also mostly acquired Krohn stock) have been pretty excellent. I was referring to their TWAIOA blends when I said that they aren't known for their tawnies. And what I mean by that is that their tawnies have benefited from being associated with the Taylor name, not vice versa. They've been average at best for years, which I assume played a part in their decision to purchase W&K which was known for their tawnies.

Hopefully that wonderful Wiese & Krohn stock will improve the Taylor's tawny blends.

[WJ Evans]

I've bought a few of them when I've happened across a discount. The quality is inconsistent. Some are excellent, while others are 'merely' very nice. Agreed though that they need to be spectacular at that price point. My last purchase was the recent 1961 release which is quite excellent.

A friend just told me today that he was given a bottle of the '61 as a birthday gift.

Since they are pricey, and the reviews/TNs I've seen have been very inconsistent, I've resisted to date.

[Glenn E.]

I've bought a few of them when I've happened across a discount. The quality is inconsistent. Some are excellent, while others are 'merely' very nice. Agreed though that they need to be spectacular at that price point. My last purchase was the recent 1961 release which is quite excellent.

A friend just told me today that he was given a bottle of the '61 as a birthday gift.

Since they are pricey, and the reviews/TNs I've seen have been very inconsistent, I've resisted to date.

Krohn had an absolutely fantastic 1961 Colheita, so if this new Taylor is actually that old Krohn stock it should be superb. Given Mike's experience with it, that's probably what it is.

[WJ Evans]

I've bought a few of them when I've happened across a discount. The quality is inconsistent. Some are excellent, while others are 'merely' very nice. Agreed though that they need to be spectacular at that price point. My last purchase was the recent 1961 release which is quite excellent.

A friend just told me today that he was given a bottle of the '61 as a birthday gift.

Since they are pricey, and the reviews/TNs I've seen have been very inconsistent, I've resisted to date.

Krohn had an absolutely fantastic 1961 Colheita, so if this new Taylor is actually that old Krohn stock it should be superb. Given Mike's experience with it, that's probably what it is.

Is a Colheita just single harvest (year or vinyard??) Tawney?

[Glenn E.]

Is a Colheita just single harvest (year or vinyard??) Tawney?

Yep! It is the wood-aged equivalent of Vintage Port, and despite what the producers will try to tell you it is the rarest of the main categories of Port. A couple of producers even call it "Single Harvest Tawny" though the category is technically Colheita.

The producers like to claim that Vintage Port is the rarest Port, but it's only the rarest Ruby Port. It makes up 2-3% of all Port sold, whereas Colheita makes up 1-2%. Technically Garrafeira is actually the rarest category of Port, but as far as I know Niepoort is the only producer still making Garrafeira in small quantities. Their most recent releases are the 1983 and 1987, and the 1987 is spectacular.