Niepoort collection

[Dirk F.]

Dear users,

due to serious healthy problems, i have to sell my Niepoort collection. Actually I offer it for sell on ebay no.: 28561364466
It consists on a couple of fine wines, like
1: 1927 Vintage holy grail - Mid shoulder
2. 1912 Colheita
3. 1935 Colheita
4. 1937 Colheita
5. 1940 Rich-Red Garafeira
6. 1942 Vintage
7. 1944 Colheita
8. 1952
9. 1963 Vintage
11.1970 Vintage
12.1980 Vintage
Due to wine searcher it sums up to about 13000 € but i would accept any serious offer.
Wins are in the very west of Germany.

Siluan

[Andreas Platt]

Hi there!

First post and that is an offer without introducing yourself how you acquired, stored, cared for the wines...I'd say: you have guts!

Coming back to the value, and this is a friendly advice: the base of your calculations should be cellartracker and auction prices instead of winesearcher and merchant prices!

And then it is like auction prices minus about 25% or so (taking into account the premiums payable). All these figures assume perfect provenance and storage.

Good luck and all the best for your health!

Cellartracker in EUR
1000 ------------------1: 1927 Vintage der "heilige Gral" einer jeden Sammlung - Mid shoulder
800 ------------------- 2. 1912 Colheita
700 ------------------- 3. 1935 Colheita
600 ------------------- 4. 1937 Colheita
450 ------------------- 5. 1940 Rich-Red Garafeira
400 ------------------- 6. 1942 Vintage
300 ------------------- 7. 1944 Colheita
250 ------------------- 8. 1952
400 ------------------- 9. 1963 Vintage
200 ------------------- 11.1970 Vintage
100 ------------------- 12.1980 Vintage
sum: 5200 EUR
minus 25%= 3900 EUR

BTW: I am not trying to "steal" your wines, in fact I am not even interested, but you will likely not receive an offer for your suggested price at all, and a "serious" offer is not going to be near your wish.

[Mike J. W.]

Woof!

[Dirk F.]

To find a real value is a very complicated process and it is nearly impossible.

When there are many prices from different dealers you can make an average price or like i did, to set the cheapest price published on a side like winesearcher and asking for a fair offer. In case you simply cannot find a price at an auction, you run into shit
and in case of very rare items it is much more doubtfull what to ask for

Generally you may think an auction price may help, but this it is not true. The prices on an auction depends to a large extent on unpredictable factors, like if the interessent have not enough money right now, or he simply missed the auction or did not even know about and so on.
On very rare items you can make a considerable good "Schnäppchen" deal. For an average item on auction prices are much more constant.
Generaly the value of an item is very dependable of the seller, who can explain a customer what and why he should buy a bottle and what and why is the price asked is so high. I alway say that i don`t sell books, but i simply sell knowledge.
To add, the price a collection of items should be always higher than the single items.
The price of a dealer can vary to a wide extend. I guess they are not all bandits.
Sorry i cannot resist as this is a question i am quite interested and discussed it with many collegues.
I dealt over many years not with wines, but with fine antiquarian books.

Sorry for my restricted language skills, english is not my mother language.

[Andreas Platt]

I alway say that i don`t sell books, but i simply sell knowledge.

Made my day!

[Mike J. W.]

I would say that anyone who collects an object such as Port is well aware of auctions, so they are aware of the auctions that are occurring. Serious collectors are constantly scouring the internet for the bottles they want. It's unlikely that they would miss items at an auction. If a bottle doesn't sell at auction it is more likely because the price is too high or the condition is too poor, not because collectors missed an auction. So yes, auctions are a good indication of price.

I'd also say that the serious collectors are very knowledgeable about Port. You might have to explain a high price to an inexperienced collector, but not to a serious one.

You don't speak to the condition of the bottles nor their provenance which anyone would want to know before they determine what they view as a fair price.

[Glenn E.]

Unfortunately the winesearcher "average price" is generally not even close to accurate. Winesearcher contains every listing that it can find on the internet, and that includes many listings for what we call "trophy bottles". The stores have no intention of selling those bottles. They are there to attract attention to the store and generate publicity. So they are often outrageously priced and nowhere near reality... but they're still counted in the winesearcher "average" price.

The best way to get a price off of winesearcher is to look only at the first couple of listings, eliminate any of those that are auctions (because those are often the starting bids, so equally unreliable for determining an average retail value), and then average those best couple of lowest prices.

Why? Think about it... if there's a listing for $100 on winesearcher, is anyone realistically going to pay $150 for the same bottle that's listed at the bottom of the page, or on a 2nd or 3rd page? The bulk of sales on winesearcher come from the top half of the first page. Ergo those indicate the approximate value of a bottle.

Furthermore, if there are very few listings for a bottle, the winesearcher price probably isn't even relevant. Because the reason those bottles are still listed - and are the only listings - is because they're too high. If they were realistic prices, they'd have sold.

You do have some very valuable bottles, but all but the first 3-4 are realistically less than $500 each. The 1927 VP and 1912 Colheita are difficult to price due to their rarity. The 1935 and 1937 are rare, but not in league with the first 2. Andreas' prices from Cellartracker are roughly what I would expect as well, though in the US you could probably get somewhat more. But probably no more than $6,000 total and that's if you are lucky.

Like Andreas, I'm not actually interested in your bottles as Niepoort isn't really my style. I'm just trying to help you reset your expectations or hopes. I would be shocked if you received anywhere near the €13,000 you've listed.

[Andreas Platt]

Hi Glenn,

+1.

I actually think that Dirk is - btw - not too interested in our explanation, anyways, and that he just tried to generate some interest in the hope of receiving an offer via our community (for sure lots of people read this forum and some may be looking for some bottles).

But I really love his "I alway say that i don`t sell books, but i simply sell knowledge." - reminds me on the old wisdom "you can get really rich if you don't sell a product, but an idea"; homeopathy, Grander water,....comes to mind

[Dirk F.]

Thank you all for your comments, my remark that i sold not only books. but knowlege, is very serious and i come from decades of running my business as an antiquarian book dealer.

This thread can be closed as i could find a lucky buyer.