Torre Bella vs Bolger

[Andrew Hall]

I need some help for CellarTracker. Christies recently had some lots they labelled as Bolger, but we seem to have them as Torre Bella. I understand the history of TB is fractured, but I don't find anything really on Bolger aside from what Christies says:

"The vast Torre Bella estate can trace its origin all the way back to the first settlers who discovered Madeira. Some of the best vineyards on the island belonged to Torre Bella, mostly in Campanário, Camara de Lobos, Ribeira Brava and Arco da Calheta.
They had "lagares" in São Roque (Funchal), Cª Lobos, Campanário and Arco da Calheta, where they used to make wine. Over the centuries supplying the shippers with fine wines though hardly ever was any wine bottled under the Torre Bella name. Only small quantities were bottled and stored in the family house.
Noel Cossart describes the Torre Bella wines as having a specific character: “The Wines, which are mostly from the Câmara de Lobos and Arco da Calheta vineyards, are full, rich, well-balanced wines with an attractive acid finish.”
Back in 1864 Christie’s sold the private Madeira collection of Russell Manners Gordon, Visconde de Torre Bella. The estate was inherited over time by Mr Dermot Bolger, at the time of his death the family estate owned about 10,5% of the island. Dermot Bolger was also responsible for the revival of Malvasia Candida by replanting this variety in 1940, then only a few plants remained. Malvasia Candida was always highly sought after and is amongst some of the finest Madeira’s ever made.
All the bottles in this selection come from the old Bolger family and were bottled from their original old demi johns of about 20 liters."

It sounds like these wines should be consider as Torre Bella though I can see where Bolger might be considered a shipper. Most of the bottles seem to just have Bolger on the front label.

I didn't find any references to Bolger in the archives here which is really weird given how much the family seems involved in the history of the island.

What are the thoughts here?

[Andreas Platt]

Hi Andrew!

I am not sure if I do completely understand your question, but I can assure that Bolger is not the SHIPPER.

It is to be noted that "Torre Bella" is the title of the estate and nobility whereas the Bolgers have been the decendant family inheriting that title, like "Mr. Dermot Bolger, Visconde de Torre Bella"

Hope this sheds some light...

P.S.: nice to have my picture included without a link or reference stating this being copied from CT...

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Andrew!

I am not sure if I do completely understand your question, but I can assure that Bolger is not the SHIPPER.

It is to be noted that "Torre Bella" is the title of the estate and nobility whereas the Bolgers have been the decendant family inheriting that title, like "Mr. Dermot Bolger, Visconde de Torre Bella"

Hope this sheds some light...

P.S.: nice to have my picture included without a link or reference stating this being copied from CT...

Andreas,

Andrew works at CellarTracker in case you weren’t aware.

[Andreas Platt]

Hi Andy!

No, how could I know.

Nevertheless I tend to just include hyperlinks to files when posting someone else's photos; just to make sure I don't violate copyright laws, which can turn out to be an annoying and expensive thing.

[Andreas Platt]

BTW: Lately I get the impression that our first name is somehow positively correlated to Madeira topics, for a reason I don't know.

So many Andy, Andrew, Andreas,...here...

[Andy Velebil]

BTW: Lately I get the impression that our first name is somehow positively correlated to Madeira topics, for a reason I don't know.

So many Andy, Andrew, Andreas,...here...

Guess I need to have a glass of Madeira today!

[Andreas Platt]

Santé to all of us!

[Eric Ifune]

Bolger is considered a grower. No selo on the bottle. Vineyards in the old Torre Bella estate.
There have been wines with a Torre Bella label and stencil. I've a few of the 1865 Sercial. I believe they were bottled by the estate of Russel Gordon some decades ago (by the last Viscountess?) and are different from the Bolger bottlings. The Bolger wines have only been recently bottled, by Francisco Albuquerque of the Madeira Wine Company. I would consider them two different wines.

[Andreas Platt]

Bolger is considered a grower. No selo on the bottle. Vineyards in the old Torre Bella estate.
There have been wines with a Torre Bella label and stencil. I've a few of the 1865 Sercial. I believe they were bottled by the estate of Russel Gordon some decades ago (by the last Viscountess?) and are different from the Bolger bottlings. The Bolger wines have only been recently bottled, by Francisco Albuquerque of the Madeira Wine Company. I would consider them two different wines.

I don't see Bolger as a grower, whom do you refer to when you mention "is considered"...there is no general concensus about this.

Of course historically Bolger family inherited the grounds and title; but same with Barbeito or in former times Barros& Sousa...one would never have argued if it is still Barbeito although Mario is not "named" Barbeito any more and the Olim brothers had Barros neither.

In my books Torre Bella and Bolger are interchangeable respectively synonymous as long as the wines are from a period when Bolger was already assign the title of TB.

Compare:

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/e48c0d ... 82b040.jpg

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/e901f4 ... bcac5d.jpg

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/e0c491 ... 7d3c86.jpg

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/696bc2 ... 8fc59a.jpg

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/97ff69 ... e32e2d.jpg

[Andrew Hall]

@andreas - I run the data side for CellarTracker. We really appreciate those labels!

Thanks all! I am still unsure what to do here, but I think I understand the history better. I think it makes sense what Eric said - we should be the modern bottlings distinct from the historical in some fashion.