Regret not pulling the trigger?

[Roy Hersh]

Today an offering came through in an email for a wine producer that I love, but took a pass and did not order. What is the one Port wine offering that you passed up and could kick yourself for not jumping on?

[Eric Menchen]

At the moment it is the $30 2005 Taylor Quinta de Vargellas. I actually found it at two different places for that price, but both dried up. That wasn't so much an offering, but the one I'm kicking myself about.

[Glenn E.]

2 x 1970 Noval Nacional for $350 each. I hemmed and hawed for a week before calling them. Finally did and thought I'd gotten the bottles, but they accidentally sold the bottles to someone in the store over the weekend before they could ship 'em out to me so I didn't get 'em.

[Mike Kerr]

Since the wallet can only handle so much, I'm thinking of passing up the $45 2003 Noval VP's to see what the latest FTLOP deal might be.

Though I'm fairly certain never going to see 2003 Novals for that price ever again.

Mike.

[Glenn E.]

I'm thinking of passing up the $45 2003 Noval VP's

Don't do it!

a) The 2003 Noval is fabulous, so you're going to want a bunch of them anyway.
b) You'll never see that price again, and the bottles will probably double in value in the next 3-5 years.

If I had the space I'd pick up another case or two to go with the case+ of odd bottles I already have.

[Eric Menchen]

+1 on what Glenn said.

[David Spriggs]

Since the wallet can only handle so much, I'm thinking of passing up the $45 2003 Noval VP's to see what the latest FTLOP deal might be.

Though I'm fairly certain never going to see 2003 Novals for that price ever again.

Mike.

I'm sweating over that exact deal. Gary's is a solid place (I've bought there before). I know I won't see this price again. They had *40 cases* a few days ago. They still have quite a few, but they will sell through it soon at this time of year. I'm really cutting back on my purchases, but this one is hard not to pull the trigger on.

-Dave-

[Moses Botbol]

Not buying more 1980 Ferreiras for $20 each or not buying more 1980 Sandeman Magnums for $60.

Passed on some 1999 Dow Vintage at $20, not sure what I was thinking that day.

[Derek T.]

Perhaps your great-grandfathers should have pulled the trigger on these...

BBR-USA-1911a.JPG (87.45 KiB) Viewed 7211 times

BBR-USA-1911b.JPG (104.33 KiB) Viewed 7211 times

Scroll down to the bottom of the second picture: Yes, that is a case of 12 x Croft 1863 for $51 delivered free to New York !!!

In case you can't read the note against the 3 wines at the bottom of the list it says:

"considering the great age in bottle of these wines we do not strongly recommend their shipment"

[Al B.]

I thought it was worth nudging this thread — it's a great theme and deserves to be revived from time to time (look out for some other revivals from me soon...)

My biggest regret is not pulling the trigger on the first FTLOP São Leonardo sale which included delivery to Europe. I really, really should have bought a handful of bottles of the SL 100yo bottled in 75cl for $150.

Last time I looked it was $2,000 for a 50cl bottle.

You live and learn...

[Glenn E.]

My biggest regret is not pulling the trigger on the first FTLOP São Leonardo sale which included delivery to Europe. I really, really should have bought a handful of bottles of the SL 100yo bottled in 75cl for $150.

Last time I looked it was $2,000 for a 50cl bottle.

My memory is that the 100yo was never bottled in 750. The very first time we were ever able to buy those Ports we bought hand-lettered "shiner" 750s of the 60yo out of the trunk of Miguel's car at the entrance to Quinta de la Rosa. He was willing to sell us the 100yo also, but Roy wanted to save that for the upcoming buying opportunity.

By the time of the buying op, the 60yo was bottled in 750ml 40yo bottles with a round "60" sticker placed over the 40. And the 100yo was in the now ubiquitous 500ml bottle that comes in the cork box, and IIRC it cost 750 EUR while the "60" cost 100 EUR. I believe that those 750ml bottles of the "60" were only ever sold during that FTLOP buying op, so if you ever see one for sale that's where it comes from.

Then for the next buying op, the "60" came in tall, thin 500ml bottles to match the introduction of the white "60".

[Eric Menchen]

By the time of the buying op, the 60yo was bottled in 750ml 40yo bottles with a round "60" sticker placed over the 40. And the 100yo was in the now ubiquitous 500ml bottle that comes in the cork box, and IIRC it cost 750 EUR while the "60" cost 100 EUR.

I couldn't remember the exact prices, but Glenn's recollection is closer to mine. The 30-year old was a steal, the 40 and 60 bargains. The 100 was not $150, not even $250. The price was good, but on the order of what Glenn wrote.

[Al B.]

Maybe it wasn’t the FTLOP offer, but I do remember being offered (by Miguel) the 100 year old in 750ml bottles. It was when I first tasted the two mother wines and the blend.

I should have bought everything he offered. I didn’t. I have a couple of 100yo bottles, but they are the 500ml bottles.

Hey ho. At least I bought a handful of the 40yo and 30yo Mother Wines when they were offered.

[Roy Hersh]

Glenn wrote:

By the time of the buying op, the 60yo was bottled in 750ml 40yo bottles with a round "60" sticker placed over the 40. And the 100yo was in the now ubiquitous 500ml bottle that comes in the cork box, and IIRC it cost 750 EUR while the "60" cost 100 EUR. I believe that those 750ml bottles of the "60" were only ever sold during that FTLOP buying op, so if you ever see one for sale that's where it comes from.

Then for the next buying op, the "60" came in tall, thin 500ml bottles to match the introduction of the white "60".

You have a good memory and 100% accurate recollection in this case!

[Eric Ifune]

More 52 Dalva Golden White at 80 euros/bottle.

[Andy Velebil]

More 52 Dalva Golden White at 80 euros/bottle.

I think it was €60 back in 2006. And that was expensive for a white tawny, any white tawny back then. And yes, I should have bought cases of it. If only a Time Machine exists.

[Lucas S]

Honestly, we're still very early here. I'm feeling pretty good about just having bought a case of 2003 SW for $30/bottle.

I own one out of 4100 cases produced. There can only be a few thousand others out there out of billions of humans, and that number of cases goes down every year. Maybe SW03 isn't the greatest thing ever (I haven't tried it yet), but ~$70 F85 and the big name Ports that put out 10-15K cases has distorted our perception of price. Because there were much larger quantities produced back then compared to much of what came afterward. Vesuvio made ~3000 cases up until 2003 and that number seems to have dropped to 750-1250 post-2009. These are ridiculously low numbers. Noval Nacional is what, 250 cases and is 8-10x the price?

Old whites are crazy scarce which is why the market has readily caught up. But the times are still good for buying good stuff.

I have this daydream where I go to Portugal, fill a container with all the good Port I can manage to taste, and open a tiny Port shop stacked to the ceiling with bottles. If bottles sell, great - I can buy more; if not, I'd basically be paying for storage on inventory that will appreciate. As I've said before, cutting the Beneficio is a mistake that will come to haunt them (as it will magnify future scarcity) and they should instead focus on expanding global distribution now, along with tawny stocks. Port is highly unusual in that it goes up in quality over time AND goes down in quantity over time, precious few other foods or material goods have that property. That it doesn't also automatically go up in price along with that quality and scarcity, tells you all you need to know about where the market is still.

[Glenn E.]

Honestly, we're still very early here. I'm feeling pretty good about just having bought a case of 2003 SW for $30/bottle.

Fantastic score! Well done!

~$70 F85 and the big name Ports that put out 10-15K cases has distorted our perception of price.

I think a lot of future people are going to have F85 for < $100 on this list. It's 40 years old now, and you can still find it for < $100 occasionally. That's just completely bonkers for such an amazing Port.

Because there were much larger quantities produced back then compared to much of what came afterward. Vesuvio made ~3000 cases up until 2003 and that number seems to have dropped to 750-1250 post-2009. These are ridiculously low numbers. Noval Nacional is what, 250 cases and is 8-10x the price?

Quinta do Vesuvio varies quite a bit from year to year. 2022 was... 1900 cases? But 2015 was only 1000 and IIRC that's one of their smaller recent releases. Capela is typically smaller, of course... closer in quantity to Graham's The Stone Terraces which is typically around 600 cases now. The first edition of GST in 2011 was 250 and IIRC the second in 2015 was 450.

There may be future people wishing that they'd purchased GST, too... I've seen the 2011 edition available online for as much as $800 per bottle, though it's typically not quite that high.

[Lucas S]

These are the case numbers I gathered for Vesuvio. Mostly from Roy or other known critics. The product sheet itself is now showing the amount for newer vintages thankfully. Just added 2022, but have no data for some of the lesser years. I believe these are TOTAL cases including magnums, etc, actual 750ml cases are even lower.

1994 3000
1995 3120
1996 3300
1997 3000
2000 2500
2003 3000
2004 1100
2005 1200?
2007 2000
2009 500
2011 1250
2012 750
2013 750
2015 1000
2016 1200/1220
2017 1200
2018 965
2019 1640
2022 1710

In short, that's a dismal supply. If you like Vesuvio, buy as much as you can find asap.