The possessive

[Guest]

This really comes down to trademark, marketing and branding, less about grammar.

Until contemplating this, I have been citing the Ports created by Taylor Fladgate as "1927 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port".

I can see why Taylor Fladgate would want to shorten their name, but I don't think "1927 Taylor Port" would work - I believe there was some trademark nastiness with Taylor New York Port about that name.

I just glanced as some Taylor Fladgate labels online, and it is listed as "Taylor's" (possessive).

So...to be accurate (irrespective of grammar), we should be referring to Taylor Fladgate Ports as "1927 Taylor's Vintage Port".

now back to your regularly scheduled program....

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

This really comes down to trademark, marketing and branding, less about grammar.

Agreed. Does that mean should we do what it says on the label? Are the labels consistent between vintages? (Presumably not for pre-1970 non-Oporto bottlings.)

Edit: no, not all houses are consistent. It seems that Warre’s is always Warre’s, Sandeman always Sandeman. Graham’s almost always Graham’s (CT missing an apostrophe once), but…

[Jay Powers]

In some cases, the inconsitancy may be because when port was bottled in England, via various importers, they used whatever they thought was right, while when bottled by the house they used what they thought was right. This may be the case with Fonseca's vs. Fonseca specifically.

Maybe you look at the most recent bottle you have handy that was bottled at the Quinta or VNDG, and go with that because that must be what the producer intends (at least currently ).

Jay

[Al B.]

Maybe this is a question for the producers? We are clearly baffled and can't figure out the answer.

Alex

[Steven Kooij]

Interesting thread. I checked out five websites, and only one seemed to be consistent in the use of their name:

From http://www.grahams-post.com :
“Graham’s Ports”/ “Graham’s” - referring to the company
“Graham’s” – on the label
“Graham’s” – site copyright
However: “…the iconic Graham 1945…” and “Super classic Graham nose of mature red fruits…”– quotes from the website
But also: “…typical Graham’s aromas of ripe plum…” – from the site as well

From http://www.warre.com (note: no “s” in the web address):
“Warre’s Port” / “Warre’s” – referring to the company
“Warre’s” – on the label
“Warre’s Port” – site copyright
However: “Warre Vintage Port is produced for long aging…” – quote from the website

From http://www.dows-port.com :
“Dow’s” or “Dow’s Port” – referring to the company
“Dow’s” – on the label
“Dow’s Port” – site copyright
However: “In the 25 Vintage Ports 'Declared' by Dow in the 20th Century…” and “For Dow, this was the last vintage to be entirely trodden in lagares.” – quotes from the website

From http://www.taylor.pt :
“Taylor’s Port” or “Taylor’s” – referring to the company
“Taylor’s” – on the label, but:
“Taylor Fladgate” (no apostrophe) - for US labels
“Taylor's Vintage Ports” – referring to the wines
And yet: “Taylor 1977 Vintage Port” – quote from the vintage list on the website
But also: “Taylor’s Qta. d. Vargellas 1978 Vintage Port” – also on the vintage list
The best: “Taylor to bottle single quinta Vintage Ports from 2004 [break] Taylor’s has taken the decision to bottle 2004 single quinta vintage ports” – a news item on the site

The only house that seems to be consistent:

From http://www.fonseca.pt :
“Fonseca” or “Fonseca Guimaraens” – referring to the company
“Fonseca” – on the label (nowadays at least – see pictures in previous posts!)
“Fonseca Vintage” or “Guimaraens Vintage” (note: no apostrophe used with Guimeraens) – referring to the wines.
“Fonseca’s superb marriage of power and breed...” – correct use of the apostrophe.

It would seem that of these 5 houses, all prefer to be written with “apostrophe s” – except Fonseca.
I found the inconsistencies on the sites perhaps even more interesting: no wonder we are a bit confused as how to properly refer to our favourite Vintages!

[Andy Velebil]

Obviously by the vast array of different spellings, the Port producers are just making sure that when we are typing posts on this forum while inebriated, that no matter how we spell the name (s, 's, s', no s, etc.) it will be correct. So the producers are just looking out for us

[Steven Kooij]

Could be Andy - and perhaps the producers only write content for their sites after a long hard day tasting barrel samples...

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Checking the producers’ websites: doh! I should have thought of that. Good idea.

And good work, and an interesting conclusion.

[Ronald Wortel]

Suggestion for a next thread: can we talk about the use of "Porto" and "Port"? (See labels above.)

[Alan C.]

Sounds like I'd better go and buy a new anorak!

Alan