Hi,
I don't mean to be dominating this forum, but I have a lot of questions. Once I have a new obession, I tend to throw myself into it. At the moment those obesessions are squash (the game) and vintage port.
I am curious where most people buy their port. I recently moved from New York City to Kansas City, so I am forced to buy most of my port online. I have bought most of my port directly from retailers and have bought some at winebid.com With the 14% commission, it is less than ideal, but I find their shipping reasonable compared to other options. I have looked at winecommune.com but while their prices are often good, I find the savings are often wiped out by the shipping.
Is the trick to buy in bulk to keep shipping costs down? Should I get my local wine retailer to order for me?
Any advice is appreciated as always.
Bob
Buying Stratgey
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
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Todd Pettinger
- Posts: 2022
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:59 am
- Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
I have not actually tried buying online yet Bob, so I may not be of much help. I am, however, in a similar boat whereby the supply of a good selection of VP is hard to come by in my neck of the woods. (If you want to know more specifics on WHY, check out my post in the 'Other Discussions' Forums entitled 'Problems Sourcing Port')
I'd like to try the online-buying thing but I have this issue with shipping hundreds of dollars of fine wine (potentially) across the country and having it all arrive in the condition I'm hoping for.
Not sure if the savings are worth it for the immediate gratification of having it in hand as you walk out of the store. Perhaps you could let me know what your online-shipping experiences have been like? I have questions (maybe I should just start another topic instead of hijacking yours like this?
)
Todd
I'd like to try the online-buying thing but I have this issue with shipping hundreds of dollars of fine wine (potentially) across the country and having it all arrive in the condition I'm hoping for.
Not sure if the savings are worth it for the immediate gratification of having it in hand as you walk out of the store. Perhaps you could let me know what your online-shipping experiences have been like? I have questions (maybe I should just start another topic instead of hijacking yours like this?
)Todd
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dave leach
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:14 am
- Location: watchung, New Jersey, United States of America - USA
buying strategy
bob,
best of luck in your new locale of kc. i would get to know one of your larger wine retailers out there, through multiple visits in person, and let them know of your jones for the juice. that way they will be on the lookout for certain ports, aware of any offerings and deals, and make getting you good port a priority. its out there, you have to know where to look. i actually had a retailer hunt down 2 cases for me recently, and he got them for me at a very good price.
there are a few good deals from on line retailers, usually wine searcher or winezap will give you an idea of the least and most expensive. i've bought quite a bit of port this way over the last few years. the shipping is a bummer, but 2-3 dayground, if not in the dead of winter or summer, won't break the bank, but will add a few $$ to each bottle you buy. its expensive when you ship just one or two bottles, more cost effective when you ship in higher quantities.
just like i suggested at retail, work your online merchants for what you are looking for, the price you hope to pay, and for them to keep you in mind when they have offerings come across their desk.
dave
best of luck in your new locale of kc. i would get to know one of your larger wine retailers out there, through multiple visits in person, and let them know of your jones for the juice. that way they will be on the lookout for certain ports, aware of any offerings and deals, and make getting you good port a priority. its out there, you have to know where to look. i actually had a retailer hunt down 2 cases for me recently, and he got them for me at a very good price.
there are a few good deals from on line retailers, usually wine searcher or winezap will give you an idea of the least and most expensive. i've bought quite a bit of port this way over the last few years. the shipping is a bummer, but 2-3 dayground, if not in the dead of winter or summer, won't break the bank, but will add a few $$ to each bottle you buy. its expensive when you ship just one or two bottles, more cost effective when you ship in higher quantities.
just like i suggested at retail, work your online merchants for what you are looking for, the price you hope to pay, and for them to keep you in mind when they have offerings come across their desk.
dave
Bob,
I'm a Squashy as well. I didn't think that there were many in the US. I played in San Fraqncisco with another British friend of mine once, but everybody else was playing a kids' game with a big squishy ball.
As for buying on-line, never done it with Port but I buy from reputable retailers for wine frequently. Never had a problem.
Al
I'm a Squashy as well. I didn't think that there were many in the US. I played in San Fraqncisco with another British friend of mine once, but everybody else was playing a kids' game with a big squishy ball.
As for buying on-line, never done it with Port but I buy from reputable retailers for wine frequently. Never had a problem.
Al
I'm telling you - Port is from Portugal.
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Mike McCune
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:03 am
- Location: Bothell, Washington, United States of America - USA
Spartacus Bob, welcome to the port world!
There are lots of deals to be found online if you watch. Wine-searcher Pro will pay for itself in one purchase. It also has a notify option for specific wines at certain prices (I'm pretty sure). Also, 'advanced google exact search' for those that might be online but not in wine-searcher.
Weather.com will be your friend.
Certain retailers will hold purchases (for free or a small fee) until the weather cools off (Premier Cru, Croft 2003 is waiting for you). (make sure your ask before ordering in the summer). Pcru will not take back bad bottles. Ask questions and establish a relationship with your retailers (get to know salespersons with common wine interests and understandings of your taste).
If you have a wine storage locker run by someone you trust, you might be able to ship directly to them and save a bunch of hauling hassle.
It's worth it to purchase and try a good older vintage or two to see how they 'blow your skirt up'. You can probably get some good suggestions here on those. Purchasing young is great for provenance but you'll need some time and need to be young enough.
Call your home owners insurance and see if and how they will cover your ports. They often cover offsite storage for your personal wines but will probably need a list.
I got burned early buying at auction and got some worthless wines (1966 Fonseca). So, my ports range from 1977-2003. For older ports, depending on $$ risk, you might temporarily secure some ports with a credit card and have one shipped to try for approval of the lot.
There are lots of deals to be found online if you watch. Wine-searcher Pro will pay for itself in one purchase. It also has a notify option for specific wines at certain prices (I'm pretty sure). Also, 'advanced google exact search' for those that might be online but not in wine-searcher.
Weather.com will be your friend.
Certain retailers will hold purchases (for free or a small fee) until the weather cools off (Premier Cru, Croft 2003 is waiting for you). (make sure your ask before ordering in the summer). Pcru will not take back bad bottles. Ask questions and establish a relationship with your retailers (get to know salespersons with common wine interests and understandings of your taste).
If you have a wine storage locker run by someone you trust, you might be able to ship directly to them and save a bunch of hauling hassle.
It's worth it to purchase and try a good older vintage or two to see how they 'blow your skirt up'. You can probably get some good suggestions here on those. Purchasing young is great for provenance but you'll need some time and need to be young enough.
Call your home owners insurance and see if and how they will cover your ports. They often cover offsite storage for your personal wines but will probably need a list.
I got burned early buying at auction and got some worthless wines (1966 Fonseca). So, my ports range from 1977-2003. For older ports, depending on $$ risk, you might temporarily secure some ports with a credit card and have one shipped to try for approval of the lot.
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Robert O.
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:46 pm
- Location: New York, New York, United States of America - USA
Thanks for the advice, all.
Todd, I have made a total of three purchases online. 2 375ml 1994 Dow, 2 375ml 1994 Warre, and one 750ml 1994 Graham. The Graham was from winebid and has yet to be delivered. The Dows and the Grahams are in my cellar. Shipped them from Colorado to Kansas City via 2 day fed ex. They seemed to be in fine condition when they arrived and were a pretty good deal, even with shipping factored in. I am going to try one Warre and one Dow within the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know how they are. But for now, they seem no worse for the wear from shipping. I'd love to just walk into my local retailer but they only carry australian ports. I am working on them getting to change that...
Dave, good advice. It hadn't occured to me to work online retailers but that is sound advice. I am very friendly with my local retailer, but have only just broached the idea of decent port with the. Frankly, I'd be thrilled if they even got some decent LBV in...all they have now is undrinakble australian stuff.
Killerb, there are lots of us squashies, mostly on the east coast. The game is growing here, thankfully
Mike, any suggestions on a good older port to try. Good point about insurance. I will check on that
Todd, I have made a total of three purchases online. 2 375ml 1994 Dow, 2 375ml 1994 Warre, and one 750ml 1994 Graham. The Graham was from winebid and has yet to be delivered. The Dows and the Grahams are in my cellar. Shipped them from Colorado to Kansas City via 2 day fed ex. They seemed to be in fine condition when they arrived and were a pretty good deal, even with shipping factored in. I am going to try one Warre and one Dow within the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know how they are. But for now, they seem no worse for the wear from shipping. I'd love to just walk into my local retailer but they only carry australian ports. I am working on them getting to change that...
Dave, good advice. It hadn't occured to me to work online retailers but that is sound advice. I am very friendly with my local retailer, but have only just broached the idea of decent port with the. Frankly, I'd be thrilled if they even got some decent LBV in...all they have now is undrinakble australian stuff.
Killerb, there are lots of us squashies, mostly on the east coast. The game is growing here, thankfully
Mike, any suggestions on a good older port to try. Good point about insurance. I will check on that
My buying experience is based in the UK, so the shipping implications are significantly different from those in the US. However, I happily buy from:
* specialist wine retailers - I search on the internet for local retailers close to where I live or work and then visit each of them. That way I select the ones to cultivate. Sometimes I drop in and select from what they have on the shelf and sometimes I will phone up or order from their online selection. If ordering by phone or internet I will either collect or only have the wine shipped when the weather is sympathetic. The Royal Mail does a pretty decent job in shipping a well packaged bottle or two for a reasonable price.
* supermarkets - often the selection a supermarket offers through their online sales route is better than their in-store selection. But the in-store selection may be very limited but might also include one surprisingly good wine. On my visit to Tesco on Saturday I was faced with Bomfim 1996 and Vargellas 1996.
* pure online wine retailers - I nearly always phone up and chat to the retailer about the order that I am thinking of placing. So far (with one exception that I did not buy from) the retailer has always been very happy to chat to me and to talk about the provenance of the wine that I am thinking of buying. This gives me a bit of confidence and also a name that I can call if I later have any problems with the wine. Again, I will look to ship only when the weather is sympathetic. My experience is that most pure online wine retailers are also operators of a single small retail site somewhere but use the internet to dramatically widen their potential market
* physical auction - I quite happily buy from physical auctions and I am rarely disappointed when I buy from one of the big names. They are reasonably selective in what they offer but you have to be prepared to walk away from what could be a significant bargain if there is even the slightest hint of potential mistreatment of the wines during their storage or shipping. If buying, I always prefer to inspect the wines that I am considering bidding for and will always do my research on prices before placing a bid. I will normally collect any wines that I win myself or will pay the auction house to deliver it using their normal choice of courier.
* internet only auction - I have never purchased through an internet auction site and feel very reluctant to do so. Without the ability to inspect the wines I have absolutely no ability to determine how sound their contents are likely to be. While I can accept that virtual auctions should make sense and be very efficient, I think that they are simply not for me when I can buy port that I want to drink through other routes.
Alex
* specialist wine retailers - I search on the internet for local retailers close to where I live or work and then visit each of them. That way I select the ones to cultivate. Sometimes I drop in and select from what they have on the shelf and sometimes I will phone up or order from their online selection. If ordering by phone or internet I will either collect or only have the wine shipped when the weather is sympathetic. The Royal Mail does a pretty decent job in shipping a well packaged bottle or two for a reasonable price.
* supermarkets - often the selection a supermarket offers through their online sales route is better than their in-store selection. But the in-store selection may be very limited but might also include one surprisingly good wine. On my visit to Tesco on Saturday I was faced with Bomfim 1996 and Vargellas 1996.
* pure online wine retailers - I nearly always phone up and chat to the retailer about the order that I am thinking of placing. So far (with one exception that I did not buy from) the retailer has always been very happy to chat to me and to talk about the provenance of the wine that I am thinking of buying. This gives me a bit of confidence and also a name that I can call if I later have any problems with the wine. Again, I will look to ship only when the weather is sympathetic. My experience is that most pure online wine retailers are also operators of a single small retail site somewhere but use the internet to dramatically widen their potential market
* physical auction - I quite happily buy from physical auctions and I am rarely disappointed when I buy from one of the big names. They are reasonably selective in what they offer but you have to be prepared to walk away from what could be a significant bargain if there is even the slightest hint of potential mistreatment of the wines during their storage or shipping. If buying, I always prefer to inspect the wines that I am considering bidding for and will always do my research on prices before placing a bid. I will normally collect any wines that I win myself or will pay the auction house to deliver it using their normal choice of courier.
* internet only auction - I have never purchased through an internet auction site and feel very reluctant to do so. Without the ability to inspect the wines I have absolutely no ability to determine how sound their contents are likely to be. While I can accept that virtual auctions should make sense and be very efficient, I think that they are simply not for me when I can buy port that I want to drink through other routes.
Alex
Excellent question and a finely detailed response from Alex and a couple of others too.
For those in the USA that live in what is termed, a "reciprocal state" you can get some of your very best deals from a handful of top retailers in California. Why are their prices so great? That gets complicated, but to simplify ... they can buy 10 cases from their distributor and get 3 like cases for free. This does not happen in most states and that is why retailers and restaurants do their "bulk" buying when the "post off" prices are in effect.
If you'd like further details on what this all means, just say so and I wil do my best to find the time to respond.
For those in the USA that live in what is termed, a "reciprocal state" you can get some of your very best deals from a handful of top retailers in California. Why are their prices so great? That gets complicated, but to simplify ... they can buy 10 cases from their distributor and get 3 like cases for free. This does not happen in most states and that is why retailers and restaurants do their "bulk" buying when the "post off" prices are in effect.
If you'd like further details on what this all means, just say so and I wil do my best to find the time to respond.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16813
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- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
I am quite intrigued, when you get the chance fill me in on the details.Roy Hersh wrote:
If you'd like further details on what this all means, just say so and I wil do my best to find the time to respond.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Todd Pettinger
- Posts: 2022
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:59 am
- Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
No rush, obviously, but I wouldn't mind a tad bit more explanation. I have a good friends of mine living in both the Redmond area and the Huntington Beach, CA area and have been thinking about getting involved in some of the auctions and using these two very good friends as warehousing facilities for brief periods until I can come collect the spoils.Roy Hersh wrote:If you'd like further details on what this all means, just say so and I wil do my best to find the time to respond.
Still working on the importing them into Canada angle, but I'm sure I can figure that out as well! :)
Todd
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Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16813
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Huntington Beach is about 15-20 minutes down the freeway from me...next time you head out this way give me a hollar and I'll open some bottles for us.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Todd Pettinger
- Posts: 2022
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:59 am
- Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
Small world when you break it on down...
I may shop to Huntington Beach (buddy's house) and then take the kids to Disneyland next year. Stopping by "Uncle Bill's" would be an imperative to pick up my goods. Then I'd have something to bring to the party! :)
(Jay was talking about getting together in the Bay area for a bottle or three when I am down in a couple of weeks. We could organize a small offline, although I think LA is a few hours drive at least from the Bay Area, isn't it?)
Todd
I may shop to Huntington Beach (buddy's house) and then take the kids to Disneyland next year. Stopping by "Uncle Bill's" would be an imperative to pick up my goods. Then I'd have something to bring to the party! :)
(Jay was talking about getting together in the Bay area for a bottle or three when I am down in a couple of weeks. We could organize a small offline, although I think LA is a few hours drive at least from the Bay Area, isn't it?)
Todd
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Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16813
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- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
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Yeah, Jay lives about 5-6 hours north of me. 
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Here is my favorite resource when it comes to reciprocal state issues and direct shipping issues which I do my best to stay on top of. This is why I have never been keen to sell any Port through the website. To do so is a logistical and expensive nightmare. The United States is literally like 50 disenfranchised countries when it comes to shipping beer, wine and liquor over the borders of the various states. There are still 13 reciprocal states and on this specific website page, you'll sift through the the wheat and the chaff.
http://www.wineinstitute.org/programs/s ... aq/faq.htm
If you are SERIOUSLY interested in this topic, you can also join or at least read more about this daunting topic on the http://www.freethegrapes.com website which I also have spent many hours reading. Note: Their mission is winery direct shipments which obviously has a very different goal than do retailers and on premise accounts.
http://www.wineinstitute.org/programs/s ... aq/faq.htm
If you are SERIOUSLY interested in this topic, you can also join or at least read more about this daunting topic on the http://www.freethegrapes.com website which I also have spent many hours reading. Note: Their mission is winery direct shipments which obviously has a very different goal than do retailers and on premise accounts.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Jay Powers
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 10:48 pm
- Location: Pacifica, California, United States of America - USA
Yes, LA is a long way away. And the border with OR is almost 8 hours north of me. And the border with Mexico 2 hours south of Andy, and all at 70 MPH.Andy V. wrote:Yeah, Jay lives about 5-6 hours north of me.
And give the GSP (Gross State Product) is 1.3 trillion dollars (650M Pounds Sterling), and California is the 5th largest economy in the entire world I have four very important questions:
1). Why is the queen visiting DC instead of California?
2). Why does GB2 ignore CA and will not fund highway repair in CA amongst 10,000 other things he will not fund in CA but does in TX?
3). Why, given the multitude of ports supporting supertanker draft vessels, does gas cost more in CA than anywhere else in the US?
3). Given the import power, balance of trade, Long Beach and SF/Oakland ports, and economy, Why can I not get a cheap port from the 1970's in California???? Like, totally bogus, dude!!!
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Andy Velebil
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Jay,
Who drives 70 mph
Who drives 70 mph
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Todd Pettinger
- Posts: 2022
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:59 am
- Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
Jay, I have a similar gripe about gas prices... Although teh UK guys pay WAY more than we do, mine is along the lines of "Alberta ships natural gas and raw crude across the border (and in a gigantic pipeline to California) but we still pay way more, given that we are the source. Vurrent gas price: $1.09/litre which is roughly $4.15/gallon.Jay Powers wrote:3). Why, given the multitude of ports supporting supertanker draft vessels, does gas cost more in CA than anywhere else in the US?
At least the ports from the 70s are available!!!Jay Powers wrote:3). Given the import power, balance of trade, Long Beach and SF/Oakland ports, and economy, Why can I not get a cheap port from the 1970's in California???? Like, totally bogus, dude!!!
Ok guys, lets get our gear in order... we invade England's cellars next week!
Todd