Great bottlings of less-than-great ports

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

In a discussion on Sandeman 1963

I have to put in a word for one particular bottling of the S63 - Alex Bridgeman and I shared a bottle at our Port n Spa evening in 2006 and it certainly bucked the trend for S63 experiences. The bottle we had was spectacular and not in any way on the decline.

Hopefully Alex can provide more info on provenance as this paticular bottling is light years ahead of the norm.

and Alex Bridgeman replied

That particular bottle that Derek and I shared in August 2006 was acquired from Berrys about 15 years ago when they were clearing out some odds and ends from their cellars in London. The odds and ends included 9 bottles of the S63 that had lain in St James undisturbed since being shipped.

I have 2 left, lying undisturbed in my "cellars" now.

Have you had a great bottling from a port that is more usually less than great? My best-ever port was, amazingly, a Noval 1963, that came from the cellars of Queens’ College Cambridge. I had more than a few of these, my last in April 2004 when one friend complained (!) that it had “too much damson jam”. A excellent port, mature but full of fruit and life. And a Noval 1963!

[Tom Archer]

Queens' name pops up from time to time as a provenance, whereas the other Cambridge colleges seem very shy when they dispose of excess stock.

I am told that in the days of bulk shipments, Trinity college arranged their own bottling, but I have never seen a Trinity bottle offered for sale.

Their cellar space is immense - I would love to know what they have lurking down there..!

Tom

[Luc Gauthier]

jdaw1 ,

What in tarnation is damson jam ??
I know of plenty jams , including toe jam and traffic jam but damson jam . . .

Luc

[Todd Pettinger]

Luc, I had to look it up too...

Damson Jam
Damsons are a small variety of plum, dark blue in colour and slightly pointed at one end, which ripens in late August-September. It grows wild in some parts of Britain but is also cultivated in country gardens. Ordinary dark plums can be used in this recipe instead.

Todd

[Luc Gauthier]

I'll stick with toe jam & peanut butter , thank you very much

[Derek T.]

Back on topic.....

It would be interesting to compile a list of bottlers that were consistently good and those that did not make the list. I have previously been a believer that Oporto bottling was always best but the Sandeman 63 experience made me seriously question this.

So who were the reliable bottlers of the pre-70's age and who are the one's to avoid?

Derek

[Tom Archer]

So who were the reliable bottlers of the pre-70's age and who are the one's to avoid?

From personal observation:

Army & Navy - very good, with robust capsules
Christopher & Co. - poor, tend to leak after 50yrs
Fearon - Excellent levels after many years
Yorkshire fine wines - ditto
Wine Society - often poor levels, possibly poorly filled
Justerini - good
Berry - good
Gilbey - good

I also have some sound old bottles from bottlers I have never otherwise heard of.

As far as I know, no-one has ever published a proper study of independant Port bottlers - this is a little bit of history that is slipping away from us...

Tom

Tom

[Al B.]

Having already contributed indirectly the Sandeman 1963 to this thread, I will also offer a Noval 1963.

At Linden Wilkie's recent tasting of Noval vs Nacional wines, Linden showed a Noval 1963 (the regular bottling, not the Nacional). This was a lovely wine and showed extremely well. The bottle was an English bottling, but the bottler was not known. Christian Seely even commented that this was the best showing of a Noval '63 that he had enjoyed in many years and was better than the bottles that they still have in the cellars of the Quinta.

Alex

[Tom Archer]

and was better than the bottles that they still have in the cellars of the Quinta.

At the risk of uttering a heresy, a look at the the climate of VNG (and also the slightly geothermal nature of granite) makes me suspect that some of the best British cellared old wines are going to be in better condition than those from Portugal..

Tom

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Christian Seely did say that Noval’s storage, some of it above ground, was not air conditioned until recently.

Granite isn’t geothermal (in the sense you meant), but it does indeed contain radioactive elements.

[Todd Pettinger]

This is a very good point Tom.. I would also suspect that the long, dry, hot summers (good for growing grapes but perhaps not so great for storing them once fermented and bottled) of Portugal may not be as ideal a storage place than say, Britain where there is no shortage (from what I understand) of precipitation and humidity.

(Let me know if I got this all wrong UK-guys! I'm just going by hearsay and TV myself! :o)
Todd

[Alan C.]

I live close to Manchester, which the UK guys will confirm, rarely see's rain....




More than 6 times a day!

[Andy Velebil]

I would disagree with Tom, to a certain extent.

Yes, SOME producers did not have very good cooling in some of their cellars in the past and some bottles may not have faired quite as well. Vesuvio in late 1980's comes to mind. However, I would venture an opinion based on what I saw when in Portugal, and that is the majority of producers cellars are quite proper for the long term storage of wines.

[Derek T.]

Andy,

I have started another thread on this very subject. You and I have been to VNG in October, I have also been in March. Neither of us have witnessed the heat of August or the cold of December and its effect on the lodge temperatures. I would like to know what this is.

Derek

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

I have started another thread on this very subject.

Allow me to encourage people referring to other threads to include a link to the mentioned thread. When, after the passing of many moons, it becomes hard to use chronology to locate the new thread, the existence of the link makes everything so much easier.

Christian Seely did say that Noval … not air conditioned until recently.

Yes, SOME producers did not have very good cooling in some of their cellars in the past and some bottles may not have faired quite as well. However … the majority of producers cellars are quite proper for the long term storage of wines.

These two statements are consistent.