LBV question

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:55 am

vange wrote:I finished off the Churchhill's crusted last night after over 24 hrs of decanting. Definitely softer after the extended decanting period. Is it good to decant the crusted and unfiltered LBVs? I figured it couldn't hurt.

Am I in the minority of people that do not like tawny ports? (especially now that I discovered crusted and LBVs)

Sure, decanting with cheesecloth filter is the way to go on unfiltered LBV's. Treat them the same as VP's.

Evangelos M. · Post by **Evangelos M.** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:31 am

Hmm, I filter the sediment using something this, is this ok?

http://www.shop.com/op/~Wine_Decanting_ ... sourceid=3

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:38 am

When I have used similar devices, I've always found that the last half a glass still has the fine sediment in it. I still haven't tried the cheese cloth method (Because I'm too lazy to get some), but I do pour very gently and after advice from a friend, put the last gass in the fridge, half an hour later the remaining fine sediment is manouverable, and about half a teaspoons worth in the bottom of that glass.

Alan

Evangelos M. · Post by **Evangelos M.** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:19 am

Where can I get cheesecloth??

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:30 am

vange wrote:Where can I get cheesecloth??

Super Market or Hardware Store

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:20 am

make sure it is unbleached cheese cloth

Evangelos M. · Post by **Evangelos M.** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:22 am

I will. I am going to call a few places and see who has it.

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:27 am

vange wrote:I will. I am going to call a few places and see who has it.

Try old t-shirt....

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:18 pm

Many fine food stores will have unbleached cheesecloth, as it is used for so many things in cooking. Some wine and cheese stores might have it as well. Cooking supply stores as well (even like "Bed, Bath, and Beyond") and such.

Jay

Mike McCune · Post by **Mike McCune** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:42 pm

When the sediment is too fine, unbleached muslin (from a fabric store) does the trick.

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:47 pm

vange wrote:Am I in the minority of people that do not like tawny ports? (especially now that I discovered crusted and LBVs)

Seeing as how the majority of the folks have rightfully chosen to advise on the decanting/filtering methods, I thought I'd answer this part of your question.

I used to believe that Aged Tawny was the ONLY kind of port worth drinking. I think that is because I was first introduced to Port through 10 yr Tawnies and a couple of cheap rubies. Easy to see how the perception of "fruity port" would take a hit if the only thing a guy knew existed was either aged tawny (yum!) or ruby (not so yum!)

Since I have tried true Vintage port, and several very good unfiltered LBVs, I think I have just about sold the 10 year Tawny down the river. It is typically nowhere near my first choice as I enjoy a solid dose of fruit, headstrong and cheeky. Perhaps why the young VPs I have tried have been so good!

I still stock a wide variety of 10 yr tawnys in my cellar, but they are more there for the day when I host a 10 yr old tawny "horizontal" and can compare 10+ ten yr tawnies altogether in one sitting. I will sip on the 10 years here and there on my constant quest to find "the one" but have to say my opinion has changed dramatically.

(The 20 yr olds are another matter - there is a dramatic difference IMHO with the 20 yrs (and older) being much much better and still a part of my regimen when financially feasible.)

Todd

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:52 am

Vange,

I've got to confess that I am with you and Todd here. If you offer me the choice of a glass of 20 year old tawny or a glass of 20 year old VP or LBV or Crusted then I will take the bottle aged wine every time.

I have nothing against tawny wines and read with interest the tasting notes that others post. I try them occasionally and, when I do, reaffirm my opinion that they are not for me.

Alex

PS - I decant every kind of bottle aged port I drink, including ruby ports, and believe that this helps them to show at their best.

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:07 am

Mike McCune wrote:When the sediment is too fine, unbleached muslin (from a fabric store) does the trick.

That is what I usually use. Lasts longer than cheesecloth too.

Evangelos M. · Post by **Evangelos M.** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:08 am

Mike McCune wrote:When the sediment is too fine, unbleached muslin (from a fabric store) does the trick.

Perfect, I just ordered some online. I was kind of getting tired of the funny looks when I asked for cheesecloth at 3 different places!

Regarding tawny, I have had 3 different 10 yrs and I am not going to say they were bad (they weren't) , but I prefer other port varietals over them.
Now that I think of it, I cant say that I have had any 20+ year ones (only 10 years). Maybe I will try one and retry my palate.

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:43 pm

vange wrote:Now that I think of it, I cant say that I have had any 20+ year ones (only 10 years). Maybe I will try one and retry my palate.

I find there is quite a noticeable difference in quality and satisfaction (for me) between a 10 and 20 year old aged tawny, even from the same producer. For example, the 10 yr Graham I found decent at best, but the 20, fabulous. Same thing with Taylor - their 20 yr old offering is MUCH better than the 10 tr.

Alan C and others rave about the Otima 20 (Warre) being superior to the 10 yr... I now have had the chance to purchase a bottle, but have not opened or tried it yet.

I have only tried two examples of a 30 yr old (Offley Baron de Forrester - a STEAL for the price I paid) and Taylor 30 (a restaurant bottle, but opened fresh for me.) Both were superb.

Todd

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:57 pm

All

You may have already tried them, but very nice Tawny's which might make you more interested might be:

Ferriera Duque de Branca 20 Yr
Ramos Pinto Quinta do Ervamoira 20 year old
Taylor 30 year old
Sandeman 20 year old bottled in 2005

I know many of you have tried these (the spelling may be wrong above), but if you have not, you might change your mind about Tawnys.

Jay

Alex R · Post by **Alex R** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:02 pm

I can always find unbleached cheesecloth at world market (cost plus).

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:30 am

Jay Powers wrote:All

You may have already tried them, but very nice Tawny's which might make you more interested might be:

Ferriera Duque de Branca 20 Yr
Ramos Pinto Quinta do Ervamoira 20 year old
Taylor 30 year old
Sandeman 20 year old bottled in 2005

I know many of you have tried these (the spelling may be wrong above), but if you have not, you might change your mind about Tawnys.

Jay

What about the Dow 20? That has been one of my favorites. One of the best 10 years I have tried is the Kirkland/Costco "Fonseca" 10 year.

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:26 pm

Alex wrote:

but my guess is that as a style [crusted] it will slowy vanish as the unfiltered LBVs gain in reputation and popularity

To my mind there is a significant difference between Crusted and LBV - the former having very little oxidative aging.

Crusted owes it's approachable character (at an early age) to expert blending, whereas the LBV's achieve the same end via a route that is dominated by oxidation.

Bottle matured LBV should have a sound and profitible niche in the market place, but it's name is too close to that of filtered LBV, a product that can be retailed for half the price.

Derek's recent tour of Asda stores might be down to mis-pricing, but it might also be down to consumers not appreciating the difference, and Asda needing to offload stock that should have sold last Xmas..

Perhaps the 'Bottle matured LBV's' need a new name, that omits the acronyym LBV, does not confuse with Vintage - and smacks of class...

- Ideas??

Tom

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:34 pm

uncle tom wrote:To my mind there is a significant difference between Crusted and LBV - the former having very little oxidative aging.

...

Perhaps the 'Bottle matured LBV's' need a new name, that omits the acronyym LBV, does not confuse with Vintage - and smacks of class...

- Ideas??

Tom

Tom, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the Crusted having little oxidative aging. Obviously you mean that the Crusted Port comes into contact with air for a significantly smaller period of time, but why is that?

This may help me figure a better name for the LBVs...

Todd