THE TRUTH ABOUT LARGE FORMAT BOTTLES

[Roy Hersh]

Having spent time at Ca´lem, Fonseca, Croft and Kopke today ... I happened to take a bunch of pictures of some Tregnums as well as many 3, 5 and 6 liter bottles. I asked Adrian Bridge what was the true reason that these sizes were rarely if ever seen in the US and UK.

He responded that it has nothing to do with our governments, the ATF etc. and although that is a common misconception, it is not accurate. The real reason they don´t export these bottles is due to the fact that the IVDP won´t let them be shipped overseas. It seems some sneak out of the country ... but NONE can be shipped by the Shippers themselves.

Adrian suggested that they are bottled for two main purposes:
a. to be donated to charity auctions.
b. to commemorate a family member´s birthday or anniversary

Well, at least we now have the truth of the matter and it cleared up this question for all of us, including me. I was wrong about the ATF not permitting large formats, beyond Mags, into the US, as I had been told by an importer friend in NY.

[Alan C.]

Interesting.

Sounds like we all need to submit a list of our Birthdays and notable Anniversarys!

Alan

[S. Marello]

Roy,

Glad you're here in Portugal with us. Pity I didn't get to see you. Maybe next time...

S. Marello

[Andy Velebil]

Roy,

Can you bring one home for my belated birthday gift. A 6-liter of 1963 Fonseca will do just fine

[Todd Pettinger]

Andy, Andy, Andy....
WHAT did you just start???

"Hey Roy, while you're at it..."


I am glad to hear that itis possible to get larger bottles over here to N. America. If I have to go to Portugal to pick it up, then so be it!!!

Todd

[Andy Velebil]

I didn't want to seem TOO greedy, plus a 6-liter would be just perfect for me to drink in one evening

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

That agrees with what I was told a few weeks ago:

At the New York exhibition of Portuguese wines I met a very interesting and knowledgeable fellow, charming as well, who need not be named here. In answer to questioning about double-magnums and large bottle sizes, it was explained that the Instituto dos Vinhos do Douro e Porto doesn’t allow for export bottle sizes above magnums. Some houses bottle large sizes ‘for family consumption’ (e.g., double-magnums or 6-liter = 8-bottle Jeroboams), and some of those houses allow a few of these bottles to be sold to purchasers physically present — they must be collected, because such bottles cannot be for export.

No, they wouldn’t hold them for me. No, I can’t collect once a decade or so. Too much administrative hassle, too much risk of bottles and their owners becoming separated, etc. No. But if one wanted several such bottles, and informed the house before the bottling for the vintage was done, that might not be impossible.

[Derek T.]

OK - now we know that Magnum+ is not comming out of VNG.

What we could consider is buying a batch of dark glass large format bottles and filling them with 750's from one of the top wines from next new generally decalared vintage. If the re-bottling happens in good conditions and soon after the initial bottling into 750's then the impact on the wine should be minimal, especially if we each plan to keep our huge bottle for a few decades.

Are there any wine merchants in the UK &/or US who still do their own bottling or re-corking? They could be the answer to our problem.

Derek

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Surely easier to do it in Portugal and arrange ‘special collection’?

[Derek T.]

As soon as you find a shipper that is happy to cross the IVDP then let us know :?

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

Derek,

It would seem that the following would deem that unnecessary:

some of those houses allow a few of these bottles to be sold to purchasers physically present — they must be collected, because such bottles cannot be for export.

If someone were physically present in Portugal to collect said large bottles, as has been discussed previously, I am not sure too many of the shippers would interrogate the person(s) to the lengths of gleaning a promise to never export the bottles from Portugal.:?

Talking to them about the logistics before a harvest ever occurs would likely determine which would be willing to undertake such a project. Some, I have no doubt, would not, as it may produce too many logistical nightmares for them. Some, fathoming the potential loyalty they would gain in a smaller, yet dedicated group of portoholics, would certainly be willing to hand over the shipment to someone locally, as this is not exporting per se. What we do with the bottles after we leave the facility is none of their concern.

I see it a possibility. If we don't investigate and ask the question, we never would know.

Todd

[Andy Velebil]

As soon as you find a shipper that is happy to cross the IVDP then let us know :?

Derek

Derek,

All that is needed is a few well placed calls (and a lot of begging) and we can pick them up at the harvest trip later this year.....ok, so that is a dream, but someday, hopefully, it will be reality

[Roy Hersh]

What we could consider is buying a batch of dark glass large format bottles and filling them with 750's from one of the top wines from next new generally decalared vintage. If the re-bottling happens in good conditions and soon after the initial bottling into 750's then the impact on the wine should be minimal, especially if we each plan to keep our huge bottle for a few decades.

Incorrect assumption. When we had a seminar on Port corks, (Alex B. would have loved this one!) from Adrian, he mentioned that they don't recork bottles of Taylor, Fonseca. He thinks that when there is a leaker, the only way to handle it beautifully is to use sealing wax. The wax stops the oxidation of a failed cork or seal. He said it is the ONLY way that he feels is successful and distinctly mentioned that removing the cork and replacing it and keeping the wine for the long term will add too much oxygen to the wine, even done gently.

Go figure!

[Derek T.]

Roy,

I can see this point when you are talking about a wine that has started to mature in the bottle but what if it was done just a few days or weeks after the original 750ml bottle run?

Derek

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

My strong preference is for Oporto bottlings. These large-format two-thousand-and-x vintages will be ready to drink in, maybe four decades time. Not all of us will last that long. An Oporto bottling, with photocopies of the paperwork, has far superior provenance and trustworthiness.

[Al B.]

That little snippet from Adrian about using sealing wax and not recorking leaky bottles is great news.

I just need to find someone who can sell me reasonable sized quantities of sealing wax at sensible prices. Then I need to figure out how to maintain the identity of the wine as stamped on the original seal that I am about to obliterate.....

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Envelopes used to be sealed with a deliberately brittle sealing wax. You don’t want that: make sure it has some flex.

Why not re-identify the bottle with a label. Have some labels printed, with fancy border, “Resealed by Alex H. Bridgeman”, and write on the label the date of resealing, and what you know of provenance. (“Resealed 25 May 2007; purchased …; old seal … still visible.”) Use a good glue!

[Roy Hersh]

I just need to find someone who can sell me reasonable sized quantities of sealing wax at sensible prices. Then I need to figure out how to maintain the identity of the wine as stamped on the original seal that I am about to obliterate.....

Julian is right on the money in response to Alex's quip above.

Here is the USA, it is very easy to buy sealing wax and very inexpensively. Since Port is so cheap there in the UK, I think the new North American Port Alliance will set up a new marketing venture, trading old VP bottles, for large quantities of Prime quality Sealing Wax.

Yes, a handwritten bottle necker might save Alex even more exasperation in covering up the old seal. After all, we want him to enjoy his bottles or he might not be willing to post a TN!

[Steven Kooij]

Speaking of big bottles: I took this picture last week in the private cellars at Fonseca in Vila Nova de Gaia (a very droolworthy collection of VP in there!) - the two bottom bins contain double magnums of Fonseca '85...boy, was I tempted!

[Ronald Wortel]

Cool picture! I was in the Croft lodge last weekend and saw some very nice double magnums there as well of a wide variety of vintages.