Douro Bake

[Bryan Robinson]

What does ‘Douro Bake’ taste like? Additionally, can anyone recommend a Port with a pronounced Douro Bake attribute that I could learn to pick out?

Thanks,

-Bryan

[Andy Velebil]

Douro bake is a term used to describe when a bottle that is/was stored in the Douro got cooked. Just like if you left a bottle in your hot car for days on end. THink cooked, stewed fruit.

If you want to try it, seek out a 1989 or 1990 Quinta do Vesuvio.

[Alan C.]

And Welcome aboard Bryan!

Alan

[Derek T.]

If you want to try it, seek out a 1989 or 1990 Quinta do Vesuvio.

tut, tut, Mr V - just because the bottles we tried which had never left the Quinta were a bit cooked doesn't mean that all 89 and 90 QdV is baked

Bryan,

If you want to taste what it's like, buy any bottle of VP, keep it in your car for the summer and then open it - yum :?

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Derek,
IIRC, they all suffered some bake, and the '90, corks that were starting to dry out. We were told the corks were drying out so they sealed them with wax to help prevent any further problems. That was the only vintage that wax was used. Every '90 bottle that I've seen for sale here in the states has had a wax top.

[Bryan Robinson]

I have tasted non-fortified wine that was not stored properly, but I can’t imagine how that wrecked pallet could ever be a good thing. Yet, I’ve read that a little Douro Bake is something some blenders are putting in on purpose. If it is more along the lines of stewed fruit, I guess I could see how it would work into a tawny.

Either way, I will certainly seek out a 89 or 90 QdV. Thanks for tip.

…and hello all.

-Bryan

[Derek T.]

Andy,

Tom, Al-B and I have all the 89 and 90 that was shipped from Vesuvio prior to the Air-con breaking down so our stuff is nice and youthfull

Derek

Truth is, I can hardly remember anything that we were told at Vesuvio so you are probably correct.

[Eric Ifune]

Douro bake is a somewhat roasted quality. Not necessarily a bad thing. On Roy and Mario's last trip, we tried a single vintage/single barrel port from 1922?. It was a grower's wine kept on the Douro the whole time. It was held up as a great example of Douro bake and tasted delicious. Some qualities of fine old Madeira, but of course, different grape varieties.

[Jay Powers]

Derek,
IIRC, they all suffered some bake, and the '90, corks that were starting to dry out. We were told the corks were drying out so they sealed them with wax to help prevent any further problems. That was the only vintage that wax was used. Every '90 bottle that I've seen for sale here in the states has had a wax top.

That's interesting, as I have a couple of bottles of 1991 Vesuvio with wax seals. Wonder where that came from. It's only a general impression, but they don't look like they were waxed after market.

Jay

[Andy Velebil]

Jay,
From what I recall, Rupert said only the 1990 was waxed. Can't say I've seen any from '91 with wax yet.

[Al B.]

I've started getting my bottles out of their shipping containers and putting them away into their long term resting places. I've already moved some bottles of Vesuvio 1990 and 1991 so I will take a look at their seals tonight (if I remember) and report back on what has been used.

I have a vague memory of the bottles as being sealed with wax from 1989 through to 1991 or 1992 but I am fairly sure that the 1994 has a normal metal (plastic?) capsule.

Incidentally, not all 1989 and 1990 Vesuvio will suffer the same amount of Douro bake. Those bottles that were shipped immediately after bottling should, at least theoretically, show less of the stewed fruit characteristics than bottles that were stored in the Quinta until moved to VnG in 1993 (or was it 1994?). I might try one of these again soon and report back.

Bryan - to answer your question it is actually quite difficult to find a wine which you know to be Douro baked. The only sure way is really to follow Derek's rather bizarre suggestion and to bake one yourself. Buy two bottles of decent but inexpensive port. Leave one in a cellar for 4 months and the other in you car - ideally out of the direct sunlight but somewhere where it will get hot when the sun warms the car. After 4 months, open them both and compare them. You should find the one from the car has elements of stewed fruit in its flavours while the one from the cellar doesn't. I find that a modest amount of Douro bake adds a little complexity to a wine but that too much is just distracting and spoils a wine.

Alex

[Derek T.]

The only sure way is really to follow Derek's rather bizarre suggestion and to bake one yourself.

Oh, no :x - I didn't want to be recognised as a genius in my own lifetime - now I will never reach cult celebrity status

[Al B.]

So far I have unpacked Vesuvio bottles from 1990, 1991 and 1994. I can confirm that only the 1990 bottles that I have unpacked have had their necks dipped in blue sealing wax. All other bottles have been covered in a blue capsule.

Alex

[Alan C.]

Al-D and Al-B,

Why would you want a botle of decent Port sloshing round your Car for 4 months of the Summer????
Dont you guys have window ledges, Green houses and the like. It just needs to be warm, not juggled.
Maybe the self proclaimed Genius wants to field this question?

Al-C

[Derek T.]

Al-D and Al-B,
Maybe the self proclaimed Genius wants to field this question?

Al-C

Don't spoil it for me Al-C, this is the first time that anyone has said they liked one of my bizzare ideas "Permission to write home immediately, Sir? That's the first brilliant plan a Baldrick's ever 'ad!"

Derek

PS: The advantage of the car is that the agitation caused by the sloshing around combined with the exagerated temperature variation means that the port will achieve Douro Bake almost twice as quickly as it would on a window ledge.

[Alan C.]

Al-D,

If you say that you KNOW that last point (Agitation) and have tested all variations, rather than you've just guessed it for humours sake....
I will recategorise your Port Geek Status to sit alongside the Great Corked One! (Al-B)

Alan

[Derek T.]

Al-D,

If you say that you KNOW that last point (Agitation) and have tested all variations, rather than you've just guessed it for humours sake....
I will recategorise your Port Geek Status to sit alongside the Great Corked One! (Al-B)

Alan

It's a scientific fact

[Frederick Blais]

Douro bake is a term used to describe when a bottle that is/was stored in the Douro got cooked. Just like if you left a bottle in your hot car for days on end. THink cooked, stewed fruit.

If you want to try it, seek out a 1989 or 1990 Quinta do Vesuvio.

From what I know and read, the Douro bake is not happening in the bottle but in the barrel as Eric Ifune is stating. Some producer decide to age their Port in barel in the Douro. Since the the temperature is higher, there is more evaporation. From that process, we get a Port wine that is evolving faster. More and more producer are now getting air conditionning in their high tech facilities, many family owned small quinta do not have.

A good exemple would be the Port from Cabral. Their 10 year old is showing a lot of caramel, butterscotch, vanilla and roasted almonds flavours similar to a 20 year old normally. Though their 20 yr old tawny is drinkable, their 30 and 40 is thin and dilluted tasting almost only alcool.

[Roy Hersh]

Thank you Frederick for being the voice of reason here. You and Eric are both absolutely correct. From the time the IVP changed the law in 1986 to allow shipping/marketing/storage up in the Quintas of the Douro; Douro bake has since been about wines being cooked in pipes and not in bottle. I don't know where anyone got the half baked idea from in the first place, that it occured in bottle.

But this is the funniest comment in this thread and I will give the author the benefit of the doubt that he was just kidding with this one:

PS: The advantage of the car is that the agitation caused by the sloshing around combined with the exagerated temperature variation means that the port will achieve Douro Bake almost twice as quickly as it would on a window ledge.

Please stay away from those dangerous lagar-rhythms after drinking Port! :blah:
Reminds me of the old idiom, Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Back on track though:

Alex mentioned about the Vesuvio bottlings in his possession. I just checked mine and found not only the 1990s with a blue wax capsule but also my 1991s (one) 375 and quite a few 750s. From 1992 onwards, they are all in blue foil capsules. Of course it is possible that mine were actually bottled earlier (the 1991s) and the non-wax version which Alex has, came later on as the wax process was stopped for whatever reason (cost?) for good.

[Al B.]

I've been trying to get my head around the regulations (in Portuguese) for the bottling of Vintage Port and therefore trying to figure out how much exposure to heat a VP might have to develop Douro bake.

If I understand the IVDP regulations properly, VP must be bottled between 1 May of the second year after the vintage and 30 July of the third year after the vintage. This means, for example, that the grapes picked and vinified in September / October 1989 would have had to have been bottled as Vintage Port between 1 May 1991 and 30 July 1992.

This would have meant that at minimum the wine in the barrels was exposed to 1 full summer (June - August 1990, bottled in May 1991) and at most to 3 summers (June - August 1990 and 1991 and June - July 1992).

Could it be that where the barrels are stored in the Douro and the air conditioning is not perfect then Douro bake will also vary according to the bottling date of a VP? Although the year of bottling has to be shown on a VP label, you do not need to give the month of bottling and there could - at least in theory - be a lot of difference between a VP from 1989 that was bottled in May 1991 and one that was bottled in July 1992.

Does anyone know if any producers ever bottle their VP's over an extended period?

Alex