TNR: 1792 Blandy's (Napoleon) Vintage Madeira

Daniel Tisch · Post by **Daniel Tisch** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:59 am

Hello!

Curious if anyone out there who has tasted the 1792 vintage blandy's could please provide some guidance...I have heard from several sources that this bottle is not enitrely up to snuff compared to other excellent examples of madeira near this age, but i am trying to separate rumour or bottle variation from the truth. This is what ive heard:

1) Broadbent's 1983 review of a true 1792 napoleon singel vintage (not solera) was 3 out of 5 strars, and he commented that the wine had dried out considerably
2) I read two tasting notes on wineloverspage of people who tried this in london and claimed that it was tired, and was not up to par with other excellent vintges and other excellent bottlings of generally similar age
3) Ive heard that it is very hard to know if a vintage (not solera) 1792 actually came from the napoleon pipe versus other pipes produced by blandys in 1792...is this indeed true?

Hence, since this bottle costs in the same league or more than I paid for 1802 Oscar Acciaoloy Terrantez, I am wondering if i may not be better off waiting and saving my madeira spending allowance on another 1802 or a 1827 Quinta do Serrado, or something of that ilk....

Any thoughts? This seems like a lot of $$ to spend on a wine that several have described as "tired"....unless perhaps they were tired when tasting it....

Thanks!!!

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:21 am

Daniel,

I felt this was a great question and went right to the source, to one of the greatest Madeira experts of our time, Mannie Berk of Rare Wine Company.

He wrote:

I have bought and sold a number of bottles of the 1792 and still have the first bottle I ever bought. I've never tasted the wine, but the consensus seems to be that it's past it's best. Any Madeira that's been in bottle for more than 150 years is likely to have at least some issues, which could explain a lot.

As for Daniel's wondering whether this is in fact the "Napoleon Madeira," it's unlikely that we will ever know for certain whether there was ever a "Napoleon Madeira" period. There's no clear evidence that the emperor was actually given a pipe of Madeira when he visited the island and so the rest of the tale associating the wine with him could be myth.

The value of this wine has always been mostly in the story, although the Blandy family provenance and its unquestioned age are worth something. But if you're looking for drinking pleasure, the old Acciaiolis and Serrados are probably better bets.

MB
_________________________________________________

Hopefully, this now provides you with the insight to make an informed buying decision!

Best regards,

Roy

Daniel Tisch · Post by **Daniel Tisch** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:41 pm

Thank you very much Roy, and please extend my gratitude to Mannie.

Much appreciated!

Looking forward to posting numerous madeira notes in the next week as I finish typing them up. Look forward to contributing a lot more the the wonderful info and opinions expressed on FTLOP.

Peter Reutter · Post by **Peter Reutter** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:09 am

Dear Daniel,

I tasted this wine in 2005 at a private tasting. The bottle was a three-part mold, burgundy-shaped, dark brown color, with no stencils or label or any other signs of a producer, crudely recorked and sealed, with a cardboard tag "1792 Napoleon Madeira". The owner swore that it was the 1792 "Napoleon" Madeira. He had bought it from a private source in the UK where there had been a cellar-book record that it was the 1792 Madeira. I tried to find out more about the source and it seems that there were several bottles of this wine, all sold off now.

However in my opinion you did not miss a thing. It the wine I tasted really was the 1792, then it was quite dissapointing. The color was a briliant medium brown iodine, the nose was very floral with a varnishy note to it and so far I was really expecting a positive surprise. But the palate was faded, died out, even spirity, evidently very old, but well beyond its peak. Anyway, this was not a wine I would have bought for my collection.

With fantasic Madeiras like the Quinta do Serrados, the Acciaiolys or some old MWC wines still available in the same price range, I would rather go for these.

And as Alex Liddell very convincingly pointed out in his book "Madeira", the Napoleon story seems to be a myth... I feel that most of the wines reputation comes from the myth and not from its quality.

Regards
Peter

PS: I wrote the british source down somewhere and I will dig this info out for you if you want it, just reply to this posting.

Daniel Tisch · Post by **Daniel Tisch** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:15 am

Peter, thanks so much for your reply and very informative post. I do believe I know of the british source to whom you refer, and i appreciate your willingness to disclose. It is very interesting to gain clairty on the myth related to this famous bottle, since I have heard much about it, but only really sought to dig into it further given its recent availability at both the british source to whom you referred and a sothebys most recently. Glad I was able to learn of these facts from you, roy and mannie.

thanks!

Marco D. · Post by **Marco D.** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:06 am

Good info Peter/Roy. Looks like the partnership with Madeira Wine Guide is already paying dividends. It's great to have Peter's insights on this board.

Daniel: Looks like your stocking up on some serious Madeiras... we need to do a tasting :)

Daniel Tisch · Post by **Daniel Tisch** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:27 am

Marco, would love to do that anytime! As Roy can im sure attest, I have a serious jonesing for tasting madeira with a great group of people. I keep trying to convince him to do an east coast tasting at least 4x per year...roy? : ) (but i guess ill have to resort to using those frequent flyer miles)

Please PM me if you have something in mind, and ill do the same. Also, if I recall you are also a fellow aged riesling fan...was thinking of trying to organize something on that front relatively soon..ill keep you posted if you are interested.

Marco D. · Post by **Marco D.** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:28 am

As I recall, Roy has family out here in the East coast. Perhaps the next time he is out here we can do a Madeira thing with Mannie as well, who lives about 30 minutes from me. I wouldn't mind hosting, as it would give me an opportunity to practice my Portuguese cooking. :)

The German tasting sounds interesting. Keep me posted.

Daniel Tisch · Post by **Daniel Tisch** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:49 am

Sounds excellent!

Roy, your family misses you...what a wonderful time to visit...warm summer breezes, sunny vistas, clean air (er...well, maybe scratch that one)....there are good prices on flights right now...better hurry. : )

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:14 am

Yes, the excellent collaboration with Peter and the madeirawineguide.com is a great benefit and I can only hope that some of his people, will migrate in time, to this Forum on occasion to add to the panoply of opinions and experience from which we can all gain.

As far as a visit to NY, I was there in mid-May, right before my trip to visit Porto & Madeira. I shall be back, but not until Oct. at this point. I would be very happy to do a Madeira gig at that time, but more than likely in Manhattan at a restaurant. Of course, for Riesling (old) which I love too, AND Madeira ... I might be willing to take a 3 hr. r/t train ride up to Marco's home.

Not so coincidentally, a friend from FTLOP is visiting here and offered to share a bottle of the 1792 with me, later this month. However, I will believe those that know more than me and "pass" on this most generous offer as there are other beauties from which to choose, offered by this very kind gentleman.

Roy

Steve Slatcher · Post by **Steve Slatcher** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:25 am

There's an interesting appendix about the Napolean Madeira in Alex Liddell's book on Madeira, BTW. I'm tempted to offer to post a precis, but it really is quite densely packed text! Out of print now, but Blandy's have a small stock on the island, and I was lucky enough to be able to grab a copy last week :)

Great to find this forum BTW. I gather it has been recently opened up, which is probably why I couldn't find it before. I be back with some stupid questions soon about my recent Madeira aquisitions. Bye for now.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:34 am

Steve,

Welcome to FTLOP and Madeira!

We've actually been a web presence since 2005, next month it will be exactly 2 years. I hope you do read the newsletters and check out the homepage for some excellent Madeira reading. Glad to have you with us and it will be great having you share your ideas and buying suggestions with the rest of us.

Sincerely,

Roy Hersh

PS - do you know if Liddell's book is also available in hard cover? I have only seen the soft covered book offered for sale.

Steve Slatcher · Post by **Steve Slatcher** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Roy Hersh wrote:do you know if Liddell's book is also available in hard cover? I have only seen the soft covered book offered for sale.

Only paperback as far as I know. I see dealers on abebooks are offering it for around $100! Picked up mine from Blandy's for 19.20EUR :)

Thanks for the welcome!

Reidar Andersen · Post by **Reidar Andersen** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:59 am

Yes, there is a hardcover. I have it plus soft cover. :idea:

Marco D. · Post by **Marco D.** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:29 am

Roy,

I remember buying an autographed hardcover version in a dust sleeve from the Rare Wine Co when it was first released. You may want to ping Mannie to see if he has any left.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:43 pm

Thanks Marco, Steve and Reidar.

Wow, how the heck did I miss the hardcover versions?

Roy

Julian D. A. Wiseman · Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:22 am

Having failed to find the telephone number of the aforementioned Blandy’s shop, instead I’ve found the Liddell book online, for €20, here.

Steve Slatcher · Post by **Steve Slatcher** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:52 am

Julian D. A. Wiseman wrote:Having failed to find the telephone number of the aforementioned Blandy’s shop, instead I’ve found the Liddell book online, for €20, here.

Good spot. I see they also have a decent range of wine.

Reidar Andersen · Post by **Reidar Andersen** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:06 am

Just got another note from Alex Liddell about the availablity of his book which he asked me to post.

Alex Liddell’s book on Madeira is NOT, despite rumour, out of print. It was originally published by Faber and Faber in three forms: (1) as a paperback; (2) in hardback; (3) in a special numbered and autographed edition of 100 copies for Mannie Berk, which sold out quickly. Faber and Faber subsequently sold its wine book list to Mitchell Beazley (London). Mitchell Beazley, therefore, inherited Faber’s stock of Liddell’s book, and can still supply both the paperback and the cloth-bound editions (under the original Faber imprint) to order – and at the original prices, rather than the absurd prices charged on the net. Your bookseller should not have any trouble getting it for you. Come back on this if you experience any difficulties obtaining it and Alex Liddell will try to sort it out.

Reidar

Steve Slatcher · Post by **Steve Slatcher** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:43 pm

Sorry for kicking off that rumour. Alex might like to find out why Amazon is claiming the book is unavailable. And in the meantime I am going to double-check anything Amazon tell me.

For The Love Of Port

TNR: 1792 Blandy's (Napoleon) Vintage Madeira

TNR: 1792 Blandy's (Napoleon) Vintage Madeira

Liddell book

Re: Liddell book