Wine Refrigerators/Coolers for Port

[johnleeiii]

All,

Am new here, and to the proper cellaring of vintage port and have a question or two:

1. I have a room in my basement that is constant 65 degrees, is that ok to store bottles of vintage port in? Is it too warm, too cold?

2. I have been thinking about a wine cooler/refrigerator for long term storing of vintage port:
- Are these useful/appropriate?
- What are some quality brand names?
- Are there any great deals on them (looking to spend about $250 or so)?

Any advice is welcomed....

john

[Frederick Blais]

Hi John, how many bottles your place can store. If its a constant 65, it is not that bad, but not ideal temperature.

You will not find anything around 250$, if your place is small enough, up to 100 bottles, place 2-3 bottles of 2l soda with frozen water in it that you replace everyday. It should cool down the room by 4-6 degree depending how big it is.

[Derek T.]

John,

65 degrees [18 celcius] is a bit on the warm side. Ideal conditions would be 12-15 C. However, constant temperature is more important than the actual temperature so you could use your cellar but would find that your ports age at a slightly accelarated rate than if they were stored in ideal conditions.

I store my bottles in Fridgidaire Wine Coolers. These control tepmerature but not humidity so these are not ideal conditions but certainly better than subjecting the bottles to constant fluctuations in temperature if stored elsewhere in the house. I think I paid around £300 ($500) for each of these and they hold 66 bottles each.

Derek

[johnleeiii]

Thank you for the replies. I have been, and continue to be, a bit confused because I have read on the internet that wine refrigerators/coolers are not to be used for long-term storage (I guess anything over 1 year)......

I was looking at an Avanti 28 bottle one, a Danby 32 bottle and a Kenmore (Sears) 32 bottle one. I think I am leaning towards the Avanti due to the thermo-electric system that does not have a compressor, so less vibration......

But would really love to hear some insights on whether a wine refrigerator is wrong for storing vintage port for years (10+ years).....

john

[alec]

Hi John,

Long term storage in a wine fridge is fine.... dunno what you heard but it's hogwash. Just remember that you're paying for the electric.

Getting a good wine fridge for a good price means taking the risk of buying one used. I just acquired a 440+ bottle Vinoteque from someone here in NYC for $800. I think it was a good deal. Though it's an older model, a comparable model today is about $6000 or so. Keep your eyes open on Craigslist.com in your area.

On your existing basement, 65 deg. is a bit warm, but I'd have a hard time believing it's really that consistent. At RadioShack, you can get a digital thermometer/hydrometer for like $12 or so. It shows min and max temp an humidity for as long as you want. Keep that where you keep your wine and check it throughout a year. My basement turned out to range from 48 degrees to 70 degrees and 22 percent to 96 percent humidity. Not exactly optimal for aging wine...ergo my recent acquisition.

8)

--A

[johnleeiii]

alec4444,

Thank You! I was having trouble buying the "...fridge is not a good thing for long term storage...." concept.

Also thanks for the heads up on the website, will start looking today.

John

PS Really love the site, and will put some info to use here in the next couple of days.

[Paul_B]

hi,
someone once told me the "don't do long term storage in a low cost wine cooler" was because low cost wine coolers vibrate so the bottle is shaking and the particles/deposits don't sit in the bottles. "Supposedly" the more expensive wine cellar units don't vibrate plus allow for humidity control.
But that may have been a sales person talking, pushing a 1K$+ unit that only speciality shops sell over a 400-600$ wine cooler you can buy in a furniture store.

got go
paba

[Tom Archer]

The warmer the cellar, the faster the maturation. Some maintain that slow, low temperature maturation is better, but the evidence to support this notion is notable for its absence.

There is better evidence to support the case for avoiding thermal shocks.

Coolers, by their design, cut in at a certain temperature and then quickly drop the temperature by a couple of degrees before cutting out again. The contents then gradually warm up before the cooler kicks in again.

As a consequence, the contents are subject to a rather brutal and repetitive freeze/thaw cycle.

My feeling is that it is better to have a slightly warmer, but temperature stable cellar, than to have one that is subject to the punishing regime of a cooler.

[Stuart Chatfield]

The warmer the cellar, the faster the maturation. Some maintain that slow, low temperature maturation is better, but the evidence to support this notion is notable for its absence.

There is better evidence to support the case for avoiding thermal shocks.

Coolers, by their design, cut in at a certain temperature and then quickly drop the temperature by a couple of degrees before cutting out again. The contents then gradually warm up before the cooler kicks in again.

As a consequence, the contents are subject to a rather brutal and repetitive freeze/thaw cycle.

My feeling is that it is better to have a slightly warmer, but temperature stable cellar, than to have one that is subject to the punishing regime of a cooler.

All true, but unlike a traditional cellar where the temp might soar by 10 degrees for a whole month (like August 2003 )and thereby give the wine a shock, wine coolers click on/off every few minutes. It is a long time since my physics A-level days, but I'd imagine that the high specific heat capacity of water (which makes up 80% of port) would ensure that a constant flicking between even as much as 10 and 14 centigrade is unlikely to change the temperature of the bottles by anything more than a range of 12 (+/-) a fraction of one degree. I'd love the romance of an old cellar and if I could have on I would but it would be the heart ruling the brain. Apart from something like that Octavian one that is a about 1/2 mile undergrond I'd bet that electronic control is better (provided there is the correct humidity). Cellars with a ceiling directly under floorboards are far worse than coolers. Although, as said, if I had one I'd use one 8)

The "contents" surely don't warm up that much, only the air around them? This in itself helps by condensing some water from the air flow around them (in a proper one, like the Eurocave I use) and keeping humidity up.

I've had a Eurocave for years and it is fine.

[johnleeiii]

All,

Thank you. I have been looking at a cooler that cools by thermo-electric means, so the refrigerator does not have a compressor that will cause unwanted vibration. I also think that if the cooler is in a seldomly used, windowless, cool room in the basement, the changes to air temp will not have great effect on the bottles themselves.

As always I am open to all ideas and comments anyone wants to share.

john

[Stuart Chatfield]

Some of the wine cooler manufacturers do air con units that you just put in the room to moderate the humidity and temp. If the room is not well sealed it is going to be costly electricity-wise as it will be running almost constantly. However it would give you the temp control without the problem of lack of space. Look at:

http://www.eurocave.com/site/pages/prod ... oduits.php

When I got my cabinet I thought "space for 250 bottles - that'll do me"

About 6 months later it was full

[alec]

Coolers, by their design, cut in at a certain temperature and then quickly drop the temperature by a couple of degrees before cutting out again. The contents then gradually warm up before the cooler kicks in again.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Uncle Tom. That may be true for food refrigerators or even wine chillers (i.e. those contraptions you put white wine in) but not wine cellars.

My vinoteque comes with a wine temp probe that sits in the wine bottle. The compressor (that makes no vibrations inside the cellar) turns on and off within a degree difference, possibly less. I remember that when I first plugged it in and it was at room temperature the compressor ran for about a 36 hours to bring the temp down to the right level. Reason was that the unit was designed to cool slowly to avoid those snap temp changes you mentioned.

Now, you also need to keep in mind that the more bottles you add to the cellar the more energy efficient it will become. (A lovely excuse for the wife) And therefore the more temp stable the wine will be to some extent. But I'd feel just as comfortable cellaring two bottles is my unit as I would 350.

--A

[Tom Archer]

Alec,

Sophisticated bit of kit you have there!

I don't dispute that the technology exists to achieve a high degree of temperature stability. The problem is that most proprietary cooling systems do not have that refinement.

Tom

[johnleeiii]

Alec4444,

That is a very similiar thought that also pertains to cigars and humidors..... A full humidor will retain Rh better than a half or near empty one......

I am really leaning towards the Avanti 28 bottle cooler, that cools by thermo-electric means.

john