Would you still enjoy VP if newer oak casks were used?

[Ronald Wortel]

Derek, that's a question that troubled me as well. All I know is that there is a lively trade going on for old tonnels. From what I've heard, they're worth quite a bit of money, and... the older the better.

[Alan C.]

Whats the transition from Tonnel to Pipes/Barrells? Or is it all varied?

[Derek T.]

Alan,

This is perhaps an occasion when size matters

I think the answer is that a Pipe is actually a Barrel but of a specific size (or within a range of sizes) that are traditionally used for making port.

A Tonnel is a large vat which stands on it's end, unlike a barrel which lies on it's side. I'm not sure if there is a minimum size requirement to qualify as a Tonnel, perhaps it is more linked to the general shape/design rather than physical size?

Derek

[Alan C.]

Derek,

So for sheer practicality, you would throw your harvest in large containers (tonnels), but at what stage, if at all, do you think, 'I'll break these Tonnels up into numerous Pipes. Before finally being dispensed into bottles.
Is there a set procedure or is it like 'How long is a piece of string' and all ad hoc, depending on demand and sales.

Alan

[Derek T.]

Alan,

As far as I am aware there is no transfer from one to the other unless the shipper decides that the wine is not fit for it's initially intended purpose.

In general terms, Tonnel's are used for the ageing red ports (Ruby, LBV, VP) and Pipes are used for the ageing of Tawny and Colheita. The reason being that the smaller the cask the more contact there is with the wood by volume, thereby allowing the wood and the air outside to have a greater effect on the liquid.

I suppose it is possible that a Tonnel full of wine intended to be LBV or VP that doesn't make the grade could be put into Pipes and further matured as Colheita or to be used in blending aged Tawny's.

One this to note here is that, according to some shippers I have heard describing the process, the best quality juice always goes into a Tonnel with the intention that it will become VP. If at 2 years it doesn't make the grade, it is left for another 2 or 3 years to become LBV or, if really bad, just blended into the next batch of Ruby.

VP used to be put in Pipes for shipping prior to local bottling but this no longer happens as all of it is bottled in VNG or the Douro.

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

Derek,

Maybe they will sell the juice to Cruz for their Ruby for the next 30 years until all flavourings are gone!?!?

Seriously though - that is a great question. Perhaps one for the trade - all this nonsense about oak barrels. I'm sure the majority would provide the stock answer of "we wouldn't ruin out port with brand new oak" but Derek's point about the new huge tonnels (is this the same as a pipe or is it bigger ) is a very good question... just how WOULD they 'season' these?

Todd

[Jay Powers]

This new vs. old oak is a very good question for the trade, because they should know (at least the winemakers) from experience.

The large vats where the VP is aged cannot last forever, even with repairs. So once in a while, new vats must be made. Since VP can be blended from multiple vats, there must be occasions were the VP that gets bottled comes from a combination of old and new wood. When the winemaker is going about his job, he must taste the various lots deciding what goes into VP and what goes into LBV and or ruby.

So, my question to the trade is "does VP sometimes come from a combination of wine stored in new and old wood, and if so, what is the character of the different lots"?

Jay

[nicos neocleous]

Or do you feel that the best way to make Port and again, especially VP, is to minimize the impact of the oak on the purity of the fruit expression?

Yes. 100%.