Did Quinta do Noval ever make a single quinta

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:53 pm

[quote="Roy Hersh]It was not until the next generally declared vintage in 1997 where all grapes for Quinta do Noval VPs came from their own vinyards and purchased grapes were no longer used for the main Noval VP. [/quote]

Roy,

So prior to 1997, Quinta do Noval VP's were not truly a single quinta VP? But a blend of grapes from other estates?

Paulo Barbosa · Post by **Paulo Barbosa** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:16 pm

Andy,

I bought 8 bottles of this port 3 years ago in a NJ wine shop for 35 bucks a bottle.

Did not know much about it, but,when I went to Porto, someone at the Noval store said that when there was an overabundance of grapes, they bottled this Quinta do Marco, which is one of the Noval suppliers.

I also think, if my memory serves me right, more recently they had another SQ bottling made of this Quinta, being only sold in Gaia at the Noval store.

This particular SQVP is quite good.

Long finish and quite fruity. Quite interesting for a 1983.

Still holding on to six of them for educational kicks.

Cheers :idea:

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:35 pm

Paulo,
Thanks for the info. I'll open mine soon and give it a go.

Marco D. · Post by **Marco D.** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:31 pm

Well... I did get a chance to briefly talk to Christian Seely today.

He is indeed familiar with the Quinta do Marco bottlings. He mentioned that Noval would occaisonaly produce these bottlings and that Quinta do Marco is a sub-vineyard within Quinta do Noval. He also mentioned that these bottlings were lighter, easier drinking wines that are ment for earlier consumption... in other words... drink up.

Hope this helps...

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:14 pm

Marco,
Thanks for the info, Guess I better open it soon and give it a go.

Did Mr. Seeley happen to say where this sub-vineyard was located?

So does anyone have a decant recommendation for this one?

Marco D. · Post by **Marco D.** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:34 am

Andy V. wrote:Marco,
Thanks for the info, Guess I better open it soon and give it a go.

Did Mr. Seeley happen to say where this sub-vineyard was located?

So does anyone have a decant recommendation for this one?

No, he didn't mention that. I saw him at an in-store tasting at Zachy's, which was pretty much a mad house. Tough to get people's attention. It kind of make you appreciate Roy's trips all that much more.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:25 am

Roy and Mario's trips are great because you can actually spend several hours with the producers and get real answers to your questions...and drink really good juice

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:04 pm

I was supposed to have a dinner with Cristiano today but unfortunately I was sick home

Though I had a couple of emails with him and here is the info I was able to get. This is english translation from French emails. French his not his first language and English is not mine, so I hope I get this all right.

Quinta do Noval VP did always get 100% Quinta do Noval grapes.

The 1991 Quinta do Roriz was made under Van Zellers & Cº in which Qta Noval had 72% ownings and 28% to Joao and Pedro Van Zeller. This very old company was brought back to life in 88 or 89. In the deal, the Quinta do Roriz was rent by Van Zellers & Cº.

In the time Cristiano and his family was the owner of Noval they did release 83 and 85 vintage from grapes bought from other properties under other brands. They also did Quinta do Silval VP during the 80's.

Quinta do Silval was once a unified vineyard. Problems with owners split the Quinta and one part was bought by Noval befor the 80's and the other part today is owned by M. Magalhães. Noval does own the rights to use the name Silval. So both Noval and Magalhães have a Quinta do Silva vineyard.

Finally he is very proud of 2007 and he thinks it is probably in the top 3 vintage since 1970.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:35 pm

Good info, thanks Fred. So they only made 2 vintages of this, interesting....

Dekano · Post by **Dekano** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:36 am

You know Andy I thought that was like asking who is buried in Grant's tomb.

Dekano
----------------------------------------
Lapruebacigars

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:39 pm

So both Noval and Magalhães have a Quinta do Silval vineyard.

This is factually inaccurate, or at least confusing at best. Whether it was lost in translation or my friend Christian is not 100% up to speed on the dealings between Cristiano van Zeller and Mr. Magalhaes (I have studied this very interesting topic in depth) I am not sure which. Quinta do Noval owns a vineyard now named Silval, not Quinta do Silval.

However, at no time was there a direct link between Quinta do Silval and the Silval vineyard site owned by Noval today. Mr. Carlos Magalhaes has owned Quinta do Silval since 1984 and bought it from owners not related to Noval. In fact, the Magalhaes family owned the Quinta do Silval back in the 1800s as well.

Carlos Magalhaes was approached by Noval's Cristiano van Zeller who wanted to use the name Silval as he knew that Mr. Magalhaes was not using it on his Port wines, instead using the name Magalhaes (and Quinta do Silval on one of three lines of his Douro wines). Although there is a difference in opinion of how this all transpired, regardless, the name SILVAL was permitted to be used on Noval's labels.

For more information check out my original article:
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/article ... silval.htm

But at no time (to the very best of my knowledge and research) did the Quinta do Noval own Quinta do Silval.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:57 pm

This is getting interesing Roy. I'll try to clarify my sayings from Cristiano email.

There was once a big Quinta do Silval. Problems with owners(probably family issue over sharings with too many children ... nephews) made that they sold the Quinta. It was bought in part by Noval and others people and later the other part was bought by Mr. Magalhaes. Cristiano was saying that it was done before the 80's, so probably at a time were he was not involved at Noval. Cristiano was quite clear in the email about one Quinta that did split in 2 and they both retained the same name. Is it possible that today with Axa noval lost the use for "quinta do Silval" but still can use the brand Silval?

I don't know the exact location of the Silval VP grapes source but I'd be interested to know about this. Also how do Noval name the Vineyard where they source the grape and why do they call the VP Silval in the case it would not be source on a land called Quinta do Silval.

It is possible too that the Magalhes Family of Carlos line did always kept a part of the Quinta if it is true that it was split in time. So it would not be a lie to say they have been there since 1800's.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:51 pm

Is it possible that today with Axa noval lost the use for "quinta do Silval" but still can use the brand Silval?

Nope, not the case. I had Mr. Magalhaes spend over an hour on this very important point. He went into great detail about his "discussions" with Cristiano in person. I promised not to divulge the conversation specifics (in my article that is linked above) and will continue to honor that.

However, AXA and Noval .. have both had access to a vineyard called "Silval" that to my knowledge ... did NOT have anything to do with the land that Mr. Carlos Magalhaes' Quinta do Silval sits today.

At least that was what I was distinctly told in great detail. If Mario sees this, maybe he can add his two cents and I will email him to do so, as he was with me and occasionally translating when nuance became an issue in the discussion I had.

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:43 pm

If I remember the discussion with Christian Seely in October 2005 correctly, I think I remember Christian saying that the Noval Silval VP is made from grapes bought in from many different sources and - I assume - possibly also from grapes from the Noval vineyard that didn't make it into the Noval wines.

I don't remember Christian saying anything about a Silval vineyard, but I was rather distracted by the number of bottles on the table in front of us.

Alex

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:10 pm

I can't remember Seeley saying anything either, but like Alex I was a bit distracted with having a great tasting and a BIG end to my Nacional virginity.

However, this is a great discussion with wonderful info....thanks

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:08 pm

My memory goes with Alex's. Perhaps a topic for "ask the port producer"?

Jay

Mario Ferreira · Post by **Mario Ferreira** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:55 pm

Al B. wrote:[...] that the Noval Silval VP is made from grapes bought in from many different sources and - I assume - possibly also from grapes from the Noval vineyard that didn't make it into the Noval wines. [....]

Alex - I believe this is accurate. :)

Ok, these are my 2

The way I understand it is that Silval by itself it's just a brand that belongs to Quinta-do-Noval.

It happens that Quinta-do-Noval owns a small plot inside the Quinta-do-Silval area. Even today this happens to be a fact.

The brand Silval was registered by the Noval owners (Cristiano van Zeller) in the past and that had happened several years before Quinta-do-Silval itself started bottling their own Ports. At that time, Mr Carlos Magalhães (owner of Quinta-do-Silval) is main wine activity was producing & buying grapes and also selling bulk wines. "Branding" then, was not a major concern for Mr Magalhães himself.

The very first Port that Mr Carlos Magalhães (owner of Quinta-do-Silval) has bottled, was a LBV 1999 (bottled in 2003?) and their first Vintage was the 2000 (bottled in 2002). Since the Silval brand was previously taken by Noval, the Magalhães family, owners of Quinta-do-Silval, had to come up with a different brand for their own Ports, which ended up by being Magalhães Ports. :)

In conclusion, nowadays the wines branded Magalhães Ports have the following information (quoted below) placed at the bottom of the label and in small printing (I'm reading it from a genuine label right now):
Created, Produced and Bottled
by
Carlos Magalhães
Quinta do Silval
5085 - Vale de Mendiz
.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:56 pm

Thank you Mario for putting some light in.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:16 am

Yes, finally!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:18 am

Roy Hersh wrote: at no time was there a direct link between Quinta do Silval and the Silval vineyard site owned by Noval today.

Frederick Blais wrote: There was once a big Quinta do Silval. Problems with owners(probably family issue over sharings with too many children ... nephews) made that they sold the Quinta. It was bought in part by Noval and others people and later the other part was bought by Mr. Magalhaes.

Mario Ferreira wrote: Quinta-do-Noval owns a small plot inside the Quinta-do-Silval area. Even today this happens to be a fact.

I'm still slightly confused. Mario, are you saying that Fred's account of the story from CvZ is correct in that the (Noval) Silval vineyard was once part of a larger Quinta do Silval ?

Derek