TN: NV V. Sattui Madeira

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:26 pm

This evening I opened a bottle of Sattui Winery "Madeira" from California. I had puchased this one from Winebid, kind of as a lark. After I got it I read a not from Roy that he liked it. Tonight was the first chance I had had to give it a go.

I must say that this is an excellent wine, although not much like Madeira. It's more like an aged LBV port. The flavor was fabulous, dominated by plums, dark berries, and, of all things, bacon. My wife and I drank it with some blue Shropshire cheese and it paired marvelously. I would highly recommend it, if you can find it. It's a limited production wine.

When I mentioned it tasted like an aged LBV, it made me wonder how old this particular bottle is. There's nothing on it to indicate date. The bottle is a standard 750ml bottle, not the short squat 750 they show on the winery website today. Does anyone have a feel for when the bottle changed?

All the best,
John Danza

Rich Greenberg · Post by **Rich Greenberg** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:29 am

J-

I don't know for sure, but can offer some anecdotal information.... I first visited V. Sattui not too long after I graduated from college in '91, and they were using the short/fat bottle that you refer to at that time. So, it seems that the bottle you had has a bit of age on it.

As far as I know, V Sattui Madeira is the only Madeira (yes, I know, if it's not from the Island of Madeira....

) is the only one I have ever tasted. I still plan to pick up a few lower end Madeiras to sample this winter, but haven't done it yet. I'll be back here for recommendations when I figure out what the local retailers have on the shelves.....

Hope this helps a little.

R

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:24 am

Hi Rich,

Thanks very much for the info about the Sattui bottle. I'll send them an email and see if they can date it for me. I had the impression that this was an older bottle, especially when the T-cork broke when I went to pull it out.

As far as access to Madeira, you're in a great location in California. Certainly you can get to the Rare Wine Company in Sonoma and their great inventory, although not "low end". I think you can find some decent low-end stuff at K&L in S.F. too.

All the best,
John

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:07 pm

Wait a cotton pickin' minute. Let's clear up some facts here:

V. Sattui started this as a solera style dessert wine well over 100 years ago. I have been to V. Sattui many times to buy this wine which is not distributed and sold exclusively at the winery. That does not mean it never makes it into retail channels, though not directly ex-cellars.

An aged LBV? Hmmmm, although this is not the only solera method of madeira-style wine sold in the USA, it is the best I've ever found and I've been drinking this stuff for a very long time now. I'd liken it more to a mix of a Malmsey and a 20 year old Tawny.

Visiting this property is a real treat with fantastic picnic grounds and a good tour for beginners (crowded as heck on the weekends though!). Lots of Napa locals dislike this tourist spot with the cool little grocery store inside, yet they have many a loyal following and some other fine dessert wines and I've also very much enjoyed some of the mountain grown single vineyard Cabs and especially their Zinfandel.

Anyway, these bottles of Madeira are never ending and they are not old bottles, made whenever the pipeline runs low, which is quite often. I remember paying around the $20 mark and then up at $25, but I believe Stewart paid $37 when there this year. Still not a bad price, but you can get the Broadbent 10 year old Malmsey for the same amount and it is the real McCoy. Regardless, the V. Sattui is a very well balanced and delicious wine year in and year out. The solera method has maintained the consistency in style, flavor profile and quality. Only the price changes, along with the years.

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:57 pm

Roy Hersh wrote:Wait a cotton pickin' minute. Let's clear up some facts here:

V. Sattui started this as a solera style dessert wine well over 100 years ago. I have been to V. Sattui many times to buy this wine which is not distributed and sold exclusively at the winery. That does not mean it never makes it into retail channels, though not directly ex-cellars.

An aged LBV? Hmmmm, although this is not the only solera method of madeira-style wine sold in the USA, it is the best I've ever found and I've been drinking this stuff for a very long time now. I'd liken it more to a mix of a Malmsey and a 20 year old Tawny.

This bottle clearly made it into the auction channel, since I got it from Winebid. I'm sure someone bought it from the winery at some time, but it remains to be determined when that was.

I guess you could equate it with a Malmsey and a 20 year tawny, but I chose not to because of the color and the lack of acid. The wine color was a variation of plum and definitely not brown, which you would associate with both malmsey and tawny. In addition, there was no VA at all.

Since you've been drinking this wine for a long time Roy, can you address my question about the shape of the bottle? Rich's post indicates that they've been using the short squat bottles since at least the early 90s. What's your experience? Have you ever encountered the wine in a standard shape-and-size 750 ml wine bottle? Perhaps this bottle is 20+ years old and that explains the flavor profile I experienced. Let me know.

Thanks,
John

Alan Gardner · Post by **Alan Gardner** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:43 pm

My one & only bottle of this was bought in the mid-80's at retail (not the winery). It was the squat bottle too.

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:01 pm

I'm going to send an email to the winery and ask them. The number on the front label is "67992", but I don't know what that means. I do have one potential lead however. The back label says the solera was begun over 80 years ago. On the website, they say the solera was started 125 years ago. This bottle doesn't look like it's been around 40 years, but stranger things have happened.

Here's an image of the label.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:24 pm

Hi John,

As long as you are going to contact the winery, can you please ask them how in the world they began a Solera method for this wine over 125 years ago ... when the winery was only established in 1885 (which in my feeble calculation is only 122 years old)? Odd that.

When I mentioned a mix of a Malmsey and a 20 year tawny, I was strictly speaking of the flavor profile. The acidity while definitely present, does not come close to that of a real Madeira which is significantly more pronounced. Not all Madeira has VA, by any stretch of the imagination. I am a LOVER of VA in Madeira and crave it, but find plenty of old and young examples where it just is not present. I certainly agree that the V. Sattui is very clean and shows no signs of VA or any alcohol protruding whatsoever. It is very smooth and a lot of people who do not like "real" Madeira ... DO like the V. Sattui version.

I have been drinking the V. Sattui for somewhere between 15-20 years and have ONLY seen the short squat shaped bottles since the very first one I purchased.

It is certainly possible that for some unknown reason, a collector forgot about the V. Sattui Madeira in his cellar and it was found and eventually just sold off, after a decades in the cellar. I would think that it is fined AND filtered as I've never detected sediment and therefore ... it would not age/improve in the bottle, but due to fortification, probably would not change too much and oxidation would not be anywhere near as prevalent as with a non-fortified wine.

See what V. Sattui says and please let us know.

Roy

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:04 pm

I got a reply from the winery about my bottle. Apparently it was part of a special run of "reserve" wine that was done about 12 years ago. Here's the text of the reply.

Hello John,

In answer to your query about our Madeira, our regular bottling is a fortified wine made in the solera process, involving fractional blending of older & younger Zinfandel (the oldest of which is about 35 years old), vintage port (the masterblend of which is over 120 years old) and fine California brandy. [Since the winery was established in San Francisco in 1885, the website text stating the mother to be 125 years old was incorrect and has been changed.]

We used to number each bottle, but discontinued that practice about 15 years ago. With one exception. In 1995, to commemorate V. Sattui's 110th anniversary, we bottled a Reserve Stock Madeira, choosing wines from the twenty-four best and oldest barrels from our solera and bottled this special lot in a package resembling the original label and bottle shape. We stated then that the solera was over 80 years old, which is true, but we since discovered that it was started far earlier that we had known.

Many people have since asked us to release another Reserve Madeira; but that single bottling, however small, had a real impact on our Madeira program. We used so much of the masterblend that year, that, to maintain the highest and most consistent quality, we had to reduce production and raise the bottle price considerably to grow the master, primary, secondary and tertiary blends again. It has taken us this many (12) years to recover; so we won't be doing that again for some time!

It's been a few years since I had some of that Reserve (yours, of course), but I remember it to be very nutty, rich and creamy. I'm glad it's still drinking well.

Thanks for enjoying our wines.

Cheers,

Robert O'Malley
Vice President
V. Sattui Winery
St. Helena, California

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:32 pm

Thank you very much for your efforts John. A great explanation and obviously you have a rare gem on your hands. Enjoy it!

Alan Gardner · Post by **Alan Gardner** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:13 am

Of course, this isn't a 'real' madeira - for many reasons! But the mention of the solera system reminds me of a visit to a Finger Lakes winery (no names) where I was cheerfully told by the guide that they made a very good sherry. It was made using the Solera system - it was called that because they left the barrels on the roof of the winery to be exposed to the sun (or "sol" hence solera).
This is not apocryphal - I was there myself (with a friend as a witness).
I didn't buy any "sherry".
Or maybe it was the NY version of estufa!

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:54 pm

Or maybe it was the NY version of estufa!

Now that is funny, but for sure it was not Conteiro.

John Danza · Post by **John Danza** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:20 am

I thought I would post an update on the evolution of the wine in the decanter, as I had about half the decanter left from last week (how'd that happen?)

The wine has evolved very nicely in the past week. The dominent flavor to me is figs right now, with some plum flavor still there. There has also emerged a very nice volitile acidity, much like you would expect in a true Madeira. The wine is quite a bit like a 10-year Malmsey right now.

More cheese awaits it tomorrow. I would love to see how it continues to evolve, but I suspect it won't see the end of the weekend. :)

All the best,
John