BRAVEHEART

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:19 am

Tonight I watched a great movie and finished off some Port at the same time. BRAVEHEART is a movie that most people probably saw when it played in the mid-1990s. It was about Sir William Wallace (an excellent article about known facts here: http://www.electricscotland.com/history ... allace.htm) who is depicted in the movie by actor/director Mel Gibson.

Very well acted and with the moral fiber of some of Gibson's earlier works like The Year of Living Dangerously and Gallipoli, (two that come to mind) Braveheart is an epic tied loosely to truths about the period and Wallace. It was not until after watching the film that I spent hours reading about Wallace, Robert de Bruce, Ed "Longshanks" and other players of the time to learn more of the facts from the late 13th and early 14th century in Scotland.

Even though there was lots of license taken by Gibson the Director (with the historical facts about Wallace ... see the article in the link above) the movie was a stunning depiction of this great warrior and highly principled man who only sought freedom for his people. It was his quest to bring peace and freedom to Scotland that made Wallace such a fierce warrior, hated by the English King and feared by the English citizenry. The scenes from his boyhood and the killing of his wife were gut wrenching and lent credence to Wallace's plight, but from what I have read so far, these seem to be more myths/legends about Wallace, but I shall dig some more to make sure.

If you have not seen this film, it is truly one of the great ones I have seen in some time. Although I wish it was more historically accurate, without knowing the history of the time ... it is a simpler and more enjoyable movie. I am glad I waited until later to do the research. Anyway, Gibson was outstanding in this film which received lots of honors. I may just have to do some more reading on this topic as I found it compelling and the story line of the movie, excellent as well. The cinematography was fantastic and some of the battle action scenes almost dizzying in their brutality and speed. I can't think of many other movies that handled similar war scenes of hand to hand combat with this type of accuity.

Maybe the best thing to do, is to take my family on a field trip to Scotland!

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:01 am

Roy,

I did indeed watch this around the time it came out, and have watched it since. I have to concur, it is a good hearty tale. There's a sting in my response, so stay with me. I can put the historical flaws to one side, its similar to leaving your brain in a bucket while you watch a James Bond movie. As long as it's entertaining, you will gloss over such things.
There was one flaw I couldn't get past, and it meant I watched it the second time almost whimsically.
The Bloody accents!
Our friend Derek T., is not the only Scot I know, but Mel Gibson and some of his colleagues have a 'unique' scottish lilt that is in one sense remarkable! It is of a similar high standard to the famous Dick Van Dykes Cock-er-knee accent. So in that vein, I envy you. I imagine you were able to avoid such irration, or not even notice. I would imagine I would be in the same boat if a New Yorker and a Californian met in a film, I would just expect 'American', you would demand accuracy.
It is a rattling good yarn, told well, and clearly enjoyable escapism. The way the ruthless King deals with his Son's effeminate and opinionated friend is an amusing highlight. Just keep it away from me, or re-dub it fror the sake of my ears.

Alan

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:42 am

I too enjoy it, but also take it for what its worth...a mostly made up Hollywood movie. I wish it was based on more facts, but at least its vey intertaining and a movie I've always enjoyed.

Alan,

I could see how the accents could bug you. I used to get annoyed on older movies when actors tried to speak like a Southern California surfer. It never came out right...just wasn't natural. But I guess most people would never know except those that live there or have good friends from there.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:01 pm

Alan,

Being that Mel is from Australia and that most Americans can not discern between English, Irish, Scotish and South African accents (which I find humorous) I can understand how grating this must be to listen to.

Although my wife is originally from Michigan (mid-West USA ... where the cars come from :o ) she is a big movie buff. She absolutely goes crazy when listening to accents and especially the TV and movies that are taking place in NY, where rarely does anybody nail NY accents properly. It drives her nuts and she never fails to mention it, ruining the otherwise purely entertaining aspect of the flick or TV show.

Suspending belief systems is easy for me to do while watching movies that are fantasy, like Star Wars. When there are obvious faux pas in serious movies like The Departed for example, then I take issue!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:32 pm

What do you mean it's not based on facts?

I thought it was a documentary

It is a great film and yes the accents are a problem, but no more so than Sean Conery's Edinburgh lilt when playing a Russian submarine captain in Hunt for Red October or Michael Cain's irritating whining in every single film he ever made.

I think Gibson's acting overwhelms the flaw in the accent to such an extent that it is almost unnoticeable for most of the film. My favourite character is the mad Irishman - a classic piece of casting and scripting.

One thing I would say is that all of the Scotsman I know who have seen this film describe a similar phenomenon - a new found love for our English neighbours as the titles roll at then end

:twisted:

Derek

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:41 pm

Even when they, erm, Cough! (invent) battles that your ancestors won...

You still lost in the end.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:23 pm

Derek,

No joking, when I watched the film I thought to myself (does he sound like he's using an accent similar to how Derek speaks as you are my only friend from Scotland). And picturing your accent and the way that Mel spoke, it sounded similar. I'm no judge on the language of your ancestors though and take it that Alan has a ton more experience and a better ear for this particular lilt, as you guys put it.

So besides the loose historical part, did you think it rang pretty true as far as the feel from what you were taught of the history of your own country?

At the end of the movie, (you knew he had to be martyred at one point, as the Scots nobles were anything but and constantly were selling him out in return for favors, money, land etc.) I sat there thinking, even though this film is only 12 years old ... it could certainly be made again today and handled with more of the story developed. It would be great to see more of the dealings between the Nobles and King Edward etc. and use that with less of a wife gets killed-let's get revenge theme ... that is tired and done a million different ways. I also think a lot more screen time should be devoted to Robert de Bruce's character, who in reality brought the fateful freedom to the country.

Given the breadth of today's movie stars, who would you see in the lead role as William Wallace?

Erik Wiechers · Post by **Erik Wiechers** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:09 pm

Roy,

i agree, a truly amazing film. I rememeber watching it in awe the first time with friends. Noone spoke for 3 hours and that is rare ! It happened only earlier with Schindlers List.

May i recommend Michael Collins to you ? A great movie about one of the founders of the IRA and his struggle with the British. And you will love the accents...LOL

Erik

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:37 pm

Erik,

I've seen Michael Collins on several occasions and really enjoyed it. Thanks for the recommendation though. I am always open to hearing about great movies that need to be seen.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:55 am

Roy Hersh wrote:So besides the loose historical part, did you think it rang pretty true as far as the feel from what you were taught of the history of your own country?

To be honest, yes, it did. The charachters in the film are very stereotypical of the commonly held beliefs of what life was like around that time. The Scots are all big, hairy, fierce, brave, honourable, unintelligent, kilt-wearing brutes and the English are evil, scheming, posh, educated and slightly wimpy but with vastly superior numbers and technology on their side.

Just for clarification, those vile, decetfull, traitorous Scottish nobles from the lowlands would be considered English. If you find a roadmap of Scotland on the net you will see a thick blue line called the M8 Motorway running west to east between Glasgow and Edinburgh. No real Scotsmen came from below that line in ancient times. If you did, you were a soft southern Jessie.

In terms of the plot, all I can remember from my days being taught this stuff at school (which, to honest, was not often) is that Wallace and The Bruce were hero's who battled away against the bully boys from down south who took our country.

Roy Hersh wrote:Given the breadth of today's movie stars, who would you see in the lead role as William Wallace?

Options would be:

Alan C. or Robert Carlyle

Derek

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:15 am

Ha,ha,ha!!!

I'd like to think you're considering me because of my size and strength, my ability to take bigger men out, my guile and cunning, and that I'm a natural leader.

But that's why I'm laughing as I type this, I know it's really because I'd get hung drawn and quartered in the end...

Alan

Historical Note.

1.There are loads of Scottish Accents. Mel Gibson nailed one that has yet to be discovered.
2. The Romans thought it not worth conquering, and built a wall. Us English decided to bring civilisation, and have never been forgiven.

Source: My local Pub

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:34 am

The Romans didn't know about the oil

...or the ideal climate for building port cellars

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:39 pm

Just for clarification, those vile, decetfull, traitorous Scottish nobles from the lowlands would be considered English.

This really had me laughing out loud. Brilliant!

I checked the M8 line as you suggested. Now if you'd be so kind to let me know where the Highlander's territory was, that would be the next step in this Scottish-geographically-ignorant American's homework. Thanks!

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:14 pm

Roy Hersh wrote: I checked the M8 line as you suggested. Now if you'd be so kind to let me know where the Highlander's territory was, that would be the next step in this Scottish-geographically-ignorant American's homework. Thanks!

Not far north of the M8, around the towns of Perth and Stirling, lies a range of hills known as The Trossachs (pron. tross-aks). Anywhere to the north and west of those hills is in The Highlands. Anywhere to the south and east (Glasgow>>Edinburgh>>Dundee>>Aberdeen) is The Lowlands.

Here is a link to a map showing the areas occupied by Highland Clans.

Derek

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:45 am

Thanks Derek. Do you know of any other movies that encompass the Highlander's adventures or plight (does not have to be Hollywood!)?

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:21 am

The only one that springs to mind is, aptly, Rob Roy - which I have not seen.

I am sure there are others but not that I can remember.

The Highland warriors (and their good Celtic buddies from the Emerald Isle) tend to turn up in various other films where the English need some crazed madmen to sort out someone they don't want to fight themselves. Robin Hood Prince of Thieves being an example.

This trend continued right up to WWI where we were used as cannon fodder whilst our noble chums from down south sipped Chateau Lafite and dined on Filet Mingon with Sauce Bernase 35 miles behind the trenchline

Anyone who can identify the highlighted scenario from a UK produced TV show wins an FTLOP hat from Roy

Derek

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:29 am

I have seen Rob Roy and never will forget the scene when he is in that death battle and is badly injured and he literally takes on last major lunge with this massive sword and splits the guy in two halves vertically. Amazing stuff. If I remember correctly, his wife was killed early on too (in the film) and sought some hellacious revenge. My wife hated the violence. I watched it again when it came out on DVD or was it VHS. Either way, a very fine film. Forgot that he was a Highlander though, so maybe I will have to rent it again.

If only I liked single malt Scotch Whiskey.