To attract a younger crowd to Port ...

[Roy Hersh]

Do you think it is acceptable to pour Port on the rocks?

Obviously most here have tried white Port that way at least once in a Port Tonic. But what about a 10 year old Tawny in the summer on ice?

Or a Ruby Reserve with a dash of tonic on ice or other mixer?

If you have a better idea, I am all ears.

BTW, this is just a suggestion, as I was having a conversation today about getting younger men AND women to enjoy Port.

[Erik Wiechers]

Do you think it is acceptable to pour Port on the rocks?

Why not ? Where is it written that Port must be drunk pure ?
Most cocktails that are drunk today are made of trial and error. Ok, forget the little straws and umbrella's, those things suck.

But a aged tawny with a twist and a little slice of lemon ? Mmmmm, i like the idea of that.

Or a Port wine flip ?

2 tsp. Light Cream
1 1/2 oz. Port
1 Egg
1 tsp. Powdered Sugar


Instructions
Shake all ingredients with ice and strain into a sour glass. Garnish with nutmeg.

I could go on and on.

Dont be afraid to experiment is my point. Try before you die !

erik

[Felix Warners]

When you look at what people are drinking atm it's pretty obvious to me that the quality of a product has nothing to do with how it sells. So I guess with good marketing almost everything can sell.
The question is, do you want the brand "Port" in the highend market or for everyone.
Now quality is important because most people that really drink Port drink it because they love the product. So they demand quality.
If the demand for a product rises the quality almost always drops. Especially where handwork is involved.
As an example you can take an italian "handmade" shirts. A Borrelli shirt sells for 300Euros because people buy the dream that the shirt is handmade. They forget that because the demand is now so much bigger than it was in the past the shirt has lost quality although the prices have gone up. You can't make thousands and thousands of handmade shirts of good quality. There simply are not enough tailors in the world, now you have some italian housewife making your shirt in a factory because the demand is so high.
What I'm trying to say is, an increase in demand isnt necesarily good for the consumer and in the long run it's also bad for the producers (drop in quality while still selling a product is good until the "Brand" loses his good name). So I hope the demand for good Port stays as low as possibe. This way prices will be reasonable and the producer needs to make a real good product in order to sell it.

[Moses Botbol]

They port is served and drank should not be altered. The trick is to get young people to try a good port server correct. I do not mean Cruz ruby at 75 degrees in a cordial glass. Serve a good port, at the right temperature, and in a proper glass. If they like it, perhaps they’ll consume more. If they do not enjoy it, in its most ideal state; they just don’t like it. I should preface their introduction with some history and knowledge to build their excitement.

Johnnie Walker does exactly this with an incredible multi-media production. Certainly the imagery associated to port may have to be created or updated, but that is easily done. People love port, but they just don’t know it. There’s no need to mix Red Bull, eggs, mint leaves to enjoy a beverage that has a proven history of enjoyment for 100’s of years.

Endorsements from Ronaldinho, Schumacher, Tiger Woods, or 50 Cent wouldn’t hurt either…

[Johannes Stadler]

Sorry if I disagree on that point. I think that drinking port the 'correct' way - meaning in a proper glass properly temperated ... is a very nice thing, but there are certain tastes that you cant get unless you mix one ingredient with the other.
To explain I want to show an example from another spirit like rum or Whisk(e)y. Many people tend not to like it because it is too stron in their taste, meaning the alcoholic burn or sharpness. Often the exact same people are quite astonished that some lemon and sugar can overcome this without altering the taste of the ground spirit too much. They usually enjoy the Rum or Whiskey Sour very much.

Another point is that starting from the taste of the spirit people often start to discover also the pure thing.

That's why I think that mixtures like Port-Tonic or other mixtures also deserve their place and can offer not a competition for Port but a completion of the palate that Port can offer for different kinds of people.

I completely accept the point that there is no sense in mixing port under a lot of Coke + 5 other ingredients just to be able to say "Port is lused in Coktails as well" but as long as it is an ingredient making a real difference I think it is a good idea to be open for that as well - one might even be imressed what Port can be after all :)

Of course I wouldn't recommend taking the high end VP's for that but reasonable quality.

[Rich Greenberg]

July, 2008 Virtual Tasting -- Port Cocktails! :)

Actually, it's an intriguing idea for those hot summer months.... I drink gin straight in the winter, but mixed with tonic, etc. in the summer. Why not port? If I'm willing to buy a $30-60 bottle of good vodka to mix with other things, why not a similar bottle of port?

I don't know if a port tonic craze is likely to sweep the nation, but it's an idea that I would (and will) definitely try!

R

[Roy Hersh]

Felix,

You have a most interesting point of view!

The question is, do you want the brand "Port" in the highend market or for everyone.

We may differ on this, but I want it for anyone who would like to enjoy it. Whether that is a bottle of basic ruby or a Vintage Port matters not. Who am I to judge someone who really likes their $10 bottle of Port because it either tastes really good to them or because they can't afford a more expensive bottle, or they just don't know that there are bigger and better Ports out there? I am not sure I know why you would think that keeping Port only for the upmarket clientele would be a plus, since you are coming from a consumerism stance in other facets of your post.

If the demand for a product rises the quality almost always drops.

Is this the rule or the exception? If it is the rule, then I can think of lots of exceptions. I will stick to wine here:
* Whether the tens of thousands of cases produced each year by Joseph Phelps in a classy bottle with a name that projects the epitome of quality year in and year out, Insignia works and demand grows each new decade.
* Dom Perignon Champagne is produced in crazy quantities like a quarter of a million cases, but in nearly every vintage bottled it receives solid ratings, while demand continues to strengthen.
* One more off the top of my head, Chateau Latour produces an average of 20,000 cases with its Grand vin and above 10,000 cases with its white wine. These are just three of a zillion example that I can think of that don't fit the mold.

So I hope the demand for good Port stays as low as possibe. This way prices will be reasonable and the producer needs to make a real good product in order to sell it.

If you're trying to be provocative, you've succeeded. As a consumer I want the best quality for the best price available. However as a pragmatist, I also realize that the grower and shipper (in cases where they are not the same being) deserve to make money on the fruits of their labor. Just think that if it rains during the harvest, there are people who do not get to work and Port companies become financially weakened; and another year goes by without the quantity of great grapes needed to make the best Port possible. Who wins?

To your point, if demand for the best quality Port remains low and therefore less great Port is sold, then not only will prices remain low but the quantities "made available" will be ratcheted down. In theory I understand where you are going, but how is this a positive?
Take your job or your friend's job or my job. If demand for the high quality product of the company we are involved with is undervalued by the majority, how long is our job safe? But this is not about job security. When prices are held down by low demand, the cash flow of a typical entity is gravely affected. In the Port trade, this is one major reason that has led to so much consolidation.

[Roy Hersh]

I don't know if a port tonic craze is likely to sweep the nation, but it's an idea that I would (and will) definitely try!

Neither is a Port Tonic new. But look at Erik's creation, (I said, "look" ) and see that there are many creative ideas out there and I'm just waiting to hear one great one. I'd be the first to promote it in an Op-Ed article in the newsletter ... which hundreds of prominent folks in the Port trade would then get to read.

So Erik or others, whether it is the next great Port cocktail or a sociological suggestion, bring it on!

[Erik Wiechers]

Roy,

how about this ?

Mulled Port recipe

750 ml bottle ruby port
1/4 cup granulated sugar
2 oranges
1/2 tsp ground allspice
1/2 tsp ground mace
1/2 tsp grated nutmeg
12 whole cloves
1 cinnamon stick


Peel and slice the oranges, and place the peel in a large nonreactive saucepan. Add cloves, mace, nutmeg, allspice, cinnamon stick, sugar and 2 cups of water. Set over a medium-high heat and stir frequently to dissolve the sugar. Allow the reach the boil and turn down to medium heat. Simmer for 10 minutes. Strain the mixture and return to the pan. Add port and heat, but do not boil. Serve in Irish coffee glasses with a slice of peeled orange in each. Makes 6 (6-ounce) Irish coffee glasses.

Cheers

[JacobH]

This thread reminded me of a few articles that appeared in the press here, just before Christmas, which reported that some Chinese tourists had visited the Ivy (an expensive restaurant in London) ordered a bottle of Pétrus with their meal, for about a £1,000, and then decided to mix it with coca-cola when they found they didn’t like the taste. Perhaps some cocktails are best not repeated!

An alternative to mulling might be to make a Port Hypocras, where the spices are allowed to infuse into the wine over a longer period, often a few weeks, before being served warm or cold. There are quite a few recipes on the internet but I quite like this one (mostly for the quantities it gives!) from 1615:

“Take a gallon of claret or white wine, and put therein four ounces of ginger, an ounce and a half of nutmegs, of cloves one quarter, of sugar four pound; let all this stand together in a pot at least twelve hours, then take it, and put it into a clean bag made for this purpose, so that the wine may come with good leisure from the spices.”

(http://badger.cx/brewing/hippocras.html)

I’m going to try this with a bottle of ruby and see how it goes!

-Jacob

[Alan C.]

The way to get to the youth of today, is image! You all may disagree, and think it's sacrilege, but it should be in mixers, and hyped up.
It's died down now, but for around a year, in my area, the younger drinkers went mad for 'Cheeky Vimto's'. This was a bottle of Blue wicked mixed with a shot of Port.
Had someone put out TV commercials, and designer magazine adverts, there was a killing to be made, and a foothold in the alcopop market.

And for those who are dismissive of such things, I would have to point out that children who are given watered down wine with meals at an early age, are often the connoisseurs of the future. We are also just beginning to see that the first generation to outgrow the Alcopops (Bacardi Breezers and the like) are growing into the main drinks. Bacardi, Vodka, Whisky.
We need the entry level Port drink, to create the Port lovers of the future.

Having said all of that, I'm happy with it as it is, and don't necessarily want an explosion in interest, and the resulting price hikes!

Alan

[Morten O]

This one is close to Erik's. Supposedly the world's oldest recipe for glögg:

3 cups red bordeaux
1 cup red port
½ cup cognac (I used vodka)
the peel from one orange or lemon (or mix)
a bit of grated cinnamon and nutmeg
5 whole cloves
2 tbsp sugar

Warm it up quickly and serve it before the alcohol starts to evaporate! It's simple and great.

[Moses Botbol]

This one is close to Erik's. Supposedly the world's oldest recipe for glögg:

3 cups red bordeaux
1 cup red port
½ cup cognac (I used vodka)
the peel from one orange or lemon (or mix)
a bit of grated cinnamon and nutmeg
5 whole cloves
2 tbsp sugar

Warm it up quickly and serve it before the alcohol starts to evaporate! It's simple and great.

Glögg - yummmm... Haven't had that in a few seasons...

[Mark DaSilva]

Moses said it best. Endorsements. If we can get Snoop Dogg to promote it, port wine would be the po-shizzle.

I am still relatively young. Most of my friends are 25-45. You need to pry them away from Stoli Martinis, Cosmos, and Coors Light. Port could be convincing at a dinner party at home - but eventually they'd reach for their beer afterwards. Simple fact is, port wine is an experience.

Younger people tend to drink a lot, and port wine is not something they'd slam, down, or shotgun. Nor afford. Give 'em $6 to spend on a drink, Sandeman is not on their horizon. Not one after the other.

No one would be happier than me if more younger people drank port

I can't believe I said po-shizzle.

[Todd Pettinger]

Mark - Bizzle tha po-shizzle in the ka-nizzle!
I have no idea what I just said, but of anyone took offense, i didn't mean it!

To be perfectly honest with you... I would be happy if Vintage Port in particular, took a nose-dive in popularity and prices then fell thru the floor. I might then be able to afford a couple of good cases of some really nice VP!

Aside from being selfish, I think that Port is a drink you have to ascend in maturity into. I don't mean that you have to be X age to drink it (hell, I probably wouldn't qualify - I am only at the age that Alan C would even BEGIN to consider drinking his VPs - but rather, you have to be ready for something like Port, in particular, Vintage Port.

I married fairly young, have my third child on the way, am in the third house of my marriage, and grew up rather young. I was into the 'bar scene' for maybe a year after I turned 18 (age of majority here in Alberta), then gave it up because it didn't interest me. I saw the problems inherent in that type of lifestyle. I held down a good job at a management-level when I was just 19. Since then I have moved onto an industry where people move along after 2-3 years (typically for more money, but often just because they get bored) yet I have been with the same company for 10 years (in May) and in this current position for nearly 8 of those years. While friends of mine just can't seem to grow up, I have 'matured' fairly early on, perhaps this is one of the reasons for my draw to Port.

I honestly LIKE the history and tradition behind it. I became aware of this forum when I began searching for more information about laying down a case of Port for my young kids (another traditional type of thing.)

Would I mind if the Port-loving world was infiltrated by an influx of young drinkers? No. If they enjoy it as much as I do, great.

But do I honestly believe Port needs to spend a lot of time and effort into attracting a younger, hipper crowd? No. Not in the least. Things seem to be going okay from my point of view (however limited it may be.) I think as people mature, their tastes change, their interests change, they change. Sometimes that change is all that is needed to lead interests down the path to Port. Give it time... they will come.

Exposure at a younger age may be an okay thing... but in all likelihood, the younger generations just aren't ready for something like Port.

Todd

[Morten O]

The 'viral 'marketing' approach: Being a young (late 20's) Port lover I find myself in a position where few of my friends share my interest in port. Instead of just accepting that, I thought I might just as well see if some of them have the potential to become Port lovers. That's why I'm throwing a private Port tasting in a few weeks with about a handful of some of my good friends. Most of them think that Port = tawny drunk by old alcoholics, so I think we'll have all kinds of Port for the tasting just to show them how diverse and wonderful Port can be. If I'm lucky, some of them will get hooked on Port and then I have more people to share my interest with. Let's see how it goes. If I can get them drunk, we're almost there

My take on 'Port for the masses' is somewhat selfish but I don't need 'everyone' to be Port lovers. On the other hand, it would be nice if the selection of Port in our shops in Denmark got greater (and thus cheaper).

[JacobH]

I find it quite surprising that Port is generally not more popular, especially here in the U.K. where most families drink a least one bottle a year (at Christmas). Perhaps this is just a reflection of my own taste buds, but I would have thought it is one of the most “accessible” wines with its sweetness making it more appealing to those who do not drink a lot of wine.

It would be interesting to do some blind testing amongst the beer and alcopops drinking “general public” to see what types of wine are most appealing. I would have thought that Port might do quite well!

-Jacob

[Richard Henderson]

I heard at a wine lunch recently that "rock stars" have declared Cristal champagne as their drink of choice . I guess that could happen with port some day. Cristal has all but disappeared from merchant's shelves.

In my youth, I confess to drinking scotch, the real whisky , with Dr. Pepper ( similar to Irun Bru for the Brits) which I do NOT recommend as an introduction to scotch!

I also note that there is a drink I have seen at Chinese restaurants called the Suffering Bastard, aptly named, made with scotch which I also do not recommend for any reason.

Making wine coolers and other drinks out of port are okay with me, so long as you don't use a 55 Taylor to do it.

I come down on the side of educating younger folks. We have done that with nieces ,nephews, inlaws etc. etc .

A little Stilton, butter, roasted walnuts, cheese biscuits and a VP is perfect and rare is the person who does not appreciate port after that.

[Roy Hersh]

When I am out and about in the USA and Canada to do Port (or Madeira) tastings with/for the clientele of retailers, wine schools, distributor sales teams etc., I view my role strictly as an educator. Newbies to Port often show up as well as those deeply interested who are looking to learn more. I truly enjoy seeing the lights of passion get turned on when someone discovers how good Port tastes to them.

I keep a very open mind about it too. Like Alan mentions above, along with others ... one of the fastest ways to get Port noticed is to find a drink that could be made with Port, to become the next Rum & Coke, Gin & Tonic, Vodka Martini etc. Port Tonic while tasty and a fun summer drink, is not the answer. Nothing against White Port, but we need to have a red Port based drink to capture the day. Something to market by the whole Port trade and found in the restaurants, clubs, hotels and lounges all over the world. It is not such a fantasy.

Sure, a celebrity endorsement would not hurt, but first you need the drink to promote. I don't have the answer and am sure that far greater minds have spent time in tasting rooms trying to come up with something ... but maybe not. There is a slew of cheap ruby available in Portugal that could be slung to be poured as a "speed rail" favorite. Someone just has to come up with a brilliant recipe.

Maybe I should approach certain entities in Gaia and see if they would be willing to co-sponsor a major contest and campaign? If any of you folks in the trade want to go that route, I'd be willing to donate a pair of our trips on our HARVEST TOUR for the winners, maybe even a private tour for the winning entry and a guest. You know where I live.

[Moses Botbol]

If port companies just mimicked Johnnie Walker and Tanguary’s commercials, ads, and promotion, it would do wonders for attracting young & new consumers.

None of these port companies put anything into promotion beyond the lowest hanging fruit.

If you told people in the liquor industry 20 years ago that Vodka, Gin, and Cognac would be flying off the shelves as it is today; you’d be a laughing stock.