Volatility (Vinegar) of Niepoort Vintage Ports

[Sascha M.]

Hello,

I purchased the book "Port and the Douro" by Richard Mayson.
He claims, that there were several shippers who had problems with bacteria in their vintage ports from mid 80´s to the mid of the 90´s. He thinks, that over-fertilisation, poor hygiene and low acidity in the vines let to high volatility of the vines.

Among the shippers shall be Niepoorts vintage ports 1997, 1994, 1992, 1991 an 1985 or 87. They would tend to get vinegar.

Anyone ever heared of this ore had bad experience?
How critical are storage conditions and occurences like shippments/movement.

[Roy Hersh]

Sascha,

Thanks for joining us here. It is nice to have you sharing your knowledge and questions and I hope others will feel comfortable to do the same.

I have tried 1985, 1987, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1997 Niepoort VPs. I have not found the VA that you/Richard mention. There was however an issue with leaking bottles of the 1997 that got shipped. It had nothing to do with volatility though. I am not sure about the specific hygiene issues that are being brought to the fore, although having been in the Niepoort lodge on several occasions, I can't say I'd be shocked if that was truly the case. Things have modernized in recent times in Niepoort's Douro operations around the Tedo River (Quinta da Napoles) and up river near Roncao where his Ports are vinified today.

Others may have had different experiences and I welcome their views.

Again, we appreciate your joining us and hope you enjoy your time here!

[Frederick Blais]

I did not have many VP of Niepoort, the 91/92 were ok as far as VA is concerned though a non-leaking 97 was having an awful nose of VA but the palate was good stuff.

Roy since 2004 when Nick joined the team a few small improvement have been made and sanity of the installation was one of those. I don't know if it was a big issue before and how concerned they were too though.

A few years ago, most of the VP was also vinify at Qta do Passadouro were cooling unit were implemented, can't say the vintage but it is possible it was not there for 97.

One thing is certain, since 2000 their VP are top quality!

[Al B.]

I don't drink a lot of Niepoort's ports as they are made in a style that is different from the one I prefer. In the last 2-3 years I've only tasted 9 bottles (vintages of 2005, 2000, 1991, 1987 and 1977) but my notes do not show that I had a problem with volatile acidity (VA) or with bacterial taint.

Alex

[Adam F]

I've had the 1983, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005 in the last year and no VA for me either. The 1997 leakers do exist in the UK but it sounds like that was either or both a cork/bottling problem.

[Ronald Wortel]

IMO, the 1997 and 1985 do have VA problems, but those are the only ones, and I don't consider it to be a structural Niepoort problem.

[Sascha M.]

Thank you very much for your warm welcome on the forum,

It seems to me, there not much, but a little evidence, maybe more than average, niepoort vintages from ´85 - ´97 got VA problems. Maybe 1997 the most.

Does it make any difference, if I let the vintages age further more? Does the risk of VA riese with age? Ore would you drink Niepoort ´91 to ´97 anyway now?

Thanks so much

[Mike McCune]

No VA to mention on the 3 bottles of 97 leakers that I opened. Just plain delicious and surprisingly approachable.

[Kurt Wieneke]

I had 2 leakers of '97 VP in 375 ml format. The first one I drank about 5 years ago had VA. The other one I drank about a month ago was just fine. Both were purchased at the same store in Portland, OR.

[Robert O.]

The Niepoort '97 I drank last year had a slightly raised cork (375ml) but tasted fabulous. The other '97s I have seem fine but I guess we'll find out.

[Andy Velebil]

This question recently came up and here is a reply from Dirk Niepoort, who gave permission to the original sender to post (who's name was removed by me).

Dear xxxx,

I m sorry to hear that you had a problem with our vintage 1997. it is
not the first time I hear of that problem and infact had one bottle tasted
abroad a few month ago that was volatile. But had a bottle 3 days ago
that was fine (closed and uninteresting at this stage but with no volatiliy
and no problems whatsoever). This seems to be a recent problem that we don’t know anything about. We will and have opened bottles recently to find out more about it. In any case it is off course true that we blend the wine (so that it is uniform in the bottle) before bottling. Having said that it is strange that some bottles are good and other not. So I have no idea for sure what is going on.

In any case , we are most happy to exchange if you have bottles with
leacher or any other problem bottles.

Thank you for your comments and warning us about the problem

Regards
dirk

[Andy Velebil]

and here is Dirk's own words on the subject...

dear all,

thank you for the kind words about me as a person.
but the issue is not me but niepoort and in this case the vintage 1997.
i have answered dave and assume that he will give you my answer.
on thing for sure.
OFF COURSE I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY PROBLEM WHEN THIS WINE WAS BOTTLED
i have heard (not only now but already a few years ago) about some problems with bottles having va. i have experienced it twice myself.
but by coincidence i was served a bottle of vintage 1997 niepoort just 3 days ago and found that the wine was good (it didn t show great ...it is closed and ininteresting and not really expressiv....but so did the fonseca which i had two days ago. it did not show any signs of being a outrageously fantastic wine at this stage. but funny stages of the vintage ports are well know to all of you).
i have been trying to find out about this problem. this problem started with us with the vintage 1985. but than again it depends on the bottle...i ve had fantastic bottles of our 1985.... and it is a problem that seems to be related to a malolactic bacteria which seems to survive at hight alcool when the ph of the wine is high and the sulphur low.but then again: why some bottles and others not?????

since we don t understand the problem we haven t done anything about it. but as with any leaking bottles we will be happy to replace any bottles as you have in your cellars.
i don t usually chat on boards so please don t expect me to be online all the time (in case you ask a question and don t get any answer from me).

thanks for all your comments
dirk
__________________
Dirk van der Niepoort

[Shawn Denkler]

I bought ten cases of the 1985 Niepoort Vintage Port directly from the distributor and kept half of it for myself. I owned a professional wine storage facility then and it was stored at 55 degrees for its whole life.

I tasted the 1985 with Dirk when it was released and thought it was excellent, enough to keep five cases for me. I did not try a bottle again for about twelve years and was shocked at the high level of volatility in the port. My cases are consistently all bad with this high volatility. After drinking though one case I found it too painful and gave away the other cases.

I have been a winemaker in Napa Valley since 1979 and have also been a wine judge for many years. There is no doubt that high volatile acidity was the problem with the 1985 Niepoort. This has been a reported problem with the 1985 vintage, so it is no surprise. I personally have seen much variation in 1985 Taylor, with some bottles good and some with moderate volatility. Other people have reported problems with other shippers.

The 1985 vintage seems to be the one with the most problems with volatile acidity. Since I tried it before buying it, I know the 1985 Niepoort was not high in volatile acidity when young. So it developed in the bottle. Many types of bacteria will grow in the bottle and acetic acid (volatile acid) is a byproduct. Malolactic bacteria are normally considered weak and will not ferment in the high alcohol levels of port. I have not had a culture done to determine the type of bacteria in my bad bottles of 1985.
The problems with the 1985 vintage possibly are due to unusually high pH levels that year. High pH levels would allow spoilage bacteria to grow in the bottle. Sulphur dioxide (SO2) is added to wine to help retard spoilage bacteria, but it is much less effective at high pH levels.

Richard Mayson has given three reasons why volatility was high in the mid eighties. Over-fertilization was one of the causes of problems with high volatility in ports. Fertilizer usually contains potassium, and high levels of potassium will increase the pH level of the grapes, which can lead to bacterial growth in the wine. Richard has written about poor hygiene, which is obvious. If you start out with high levels of bacteria, problems can more easily occur. Richard also has mentioned low acidity as another cause of volatility. Low acid can occur for several reasons, but it is common in hot years. The hotter the year and the longer the grapes are left hanging on the vine, the lower the acid. Acidity and pH are not directly correlated, but normally the lower the acid the higher the pH.

Problems with the 1985 vintage ports have been written about many times in this forum. Unfortunately Niepoort is one of the shippers with problems.

Leaking bottles has been an occasionally reported problem with the 1997 Niepoort vintage port. I seriously doubt that would cause volatility. A young vintage port has so much color and tannin that it can absorb a large amount of oxygen. To get enough air in to cause problems the cork would have to be so bad that lots of port would leak out. Vinegar bacteria are not supposed to grow at over about 15% alcohol. The problems with volatility in the bottle are caused by other types of bacteria, and if those bacteria were present many bottles would be affected.

[Roy Hersh]

Shawn,

Thanks for your brilliant insight to this issue. It is great to have you visit us again and it is much appreciated.

If VA has issues with his RS, why is it so prevalent in most Madeiras?

I have a few bottles of CA ports to reviews in this month's FTLOP newsletter and would be happy to include yours as well, if you would like?

Best regards,

Roy

[Steven Kooij]

Great post, Shawn!

FWIW: I have had a fair share of Niepoort VPs (from '63 to '05), but I've only come across VA in the '85 (tasted three times) and in the '97 (tasted twice, both leakers as well). No problems with other vintages!

[Kurt Wieneke]

Whenever I checked my '97 leakers, I was always intrigued with the fact that they "oozed". I mean, continuously. I would wipe off the sticky ooze from the top of the cap, and come back a couple of days later and there it was - more ooze. At one point I did think maybe there could be secondary fermentation going on in the bottles, because there had to be something dynamic going on inside for them to keep oozing. After awhile, I stood them up because I did not want to have to keep wiping them off. But to Shawn's point, I think maybe there could have been some bacterial action happening inside the '97's irregardless of the cork sealing issue.

[Andy Velebil]

Shawn,

Great to hear from you, I hope all has been well with you. Thanks for the very enlightening post, very well written and easy for us non-wine makers to understand.

Let me know when you're heading back down this way. I've got some bottles for you to try....I know you've never had one of them

[Shawn Denkler]

Hi Andy

I would love to be back in the LA area and drink some fine port with you. I have not been down for a while and have not had a chance to open something nice to congratulate you on you becoming a moderator.

Hopefully soon!

[Shawn Denkler]

Hi Roy

Thanks for your offer to review my California "Port". I oversold my last release and have only two bottles left, so I do not have any I can sent you for a review. I will be bottling a thousand cases in the fall so I'll have some I can spare then.

Madeira can have volatile acidity as can old tawnys. The reason is the same - exposure to air over a very long period of time. These older wines have lost their color and tannin and have little to protect them from oxidation.

Because the alcohol level is over 15% vinegar bacteria are not active. The cause is just oxidation from oxygen in the air. With Madeira in particular I have heard stories of an old cask being found half full. The large surface area exposed to air increases the chance for volatile acidity forming. Tawny ports are often topped with younger wine and the younger wine probably has a little more color and tannin to protect the older wine.