Take a guess - bottle revealed

[Morten O]

I've opened a 'secret' bottle of Port today and I now hope that you are willing to be part of this little experiment. Take a guess:
1) What type of Port is this? And why?
2) How old is it? And why?

There a two goals:
a) I and other newbies can hopefully learn a bit about color and how it changes over time, what to look for and other giveaways
b) You can show the other FTLOP'ers who's the best at analysing the color of a Port to determine what it is

I will reveal the Port when the time is right (a few days I assume).


Disclaimer: It looks slightly darker on photo than when I look at it, but it's not much. For example, it appears less dark in the middle when looking at the glass, it has almost the same color throughout, whereas the color further out appears correct.

[Roy Hersh]

The photo's background doesn't help. I'll start out guessing: 1959 Chateau Latour?

[Kris Henderson]

Looks like it could be a 10 year tawny to me.

[Frederick Blais]

I'll vote for a 20 yo tawny but there are so many ports that could have this color that are not this. For example, 2 years ago I tasted a Senior Port Tawny from Niepoort that has been held 15+ years in bottle, it was very similar to a 20 yo tawny.

[Frederick Blais]

The photo's background doesn't help. I'll start out guessing: 1959 Chateau Latour?

I'm surprise you are saying so. Never got this wine but a few Bordeaux I got from 59 a 61 were all darker and looking younger than this example... including Latour 61 :o

[Erik Wiechers]

Morten O said:

Disclaimer: It looks slightly darker on photo than when I look at it, but it's not much. For example, it appears less dark in the middle when looking at the glass, it has almost the same color throughout, whereas the color further out appears correct

then i go for the 10 year old Tawny. Above quote made my decision.

[Al B.]

The colour certainly looks to me as though this is a wood aged port rather than a bottle aged port. But it might not be a blended tawny, this could be somthing along the lines of a colheita from, say, 1974.

Alex

[Scott Anaya]

Looks like a somewhat tired '63 VP. One that was out of a newly opened botle with little aeraton time that sometimes allows for a darkening of color.

Heck it may be older? An 1897 Byass I opened recently was of that color too.

[Todd Pettinger]

Taylor 10 Year Tawny <or>
Warre's Otima 10 Year Tawny.

Todd

[Glenn E.]

If the photo is darker than the actual Port, I'm going to have to guess that it's not a 10-yr old but a 20-yr old.

To me, the photo is right between the colors I normally see in 10- and 20-yr old Tawnies, so a slight bit of lightening would tip that guess to the 20-yr old.

I have no idea on the shipper!

[Derek T.]

The rim looks very clear which, to me, looks like a fully mature wine. That said, the magnified colour at the bottom of the bowl of the glass looks red rather than brown.

I'll go for a non-blockbuster VP from the 1960's

Derek

[Morten O]

Be prepared to be surprised:
(and thanks for sharing your thoughts!)

I was quite surprised when I opened this 375cl bottle of Warre's Quinta da Cavadinha 1988 VP. I bought it a couple of monts ago for $25 from a trustworthy wine seller.

At first I thought that someone had exchanged the fluid with a tawny, not just because of the color but also because of the smell and taste. Even though I'm very unexperienced with Port, had this been served to me -- blindfolded or not -- I would have guessed it was a young tawny, just as many of you did.

I've tasted a VP from 1991 which was almost as dark and fruity as a young VP, so I can't figure out why and how it had developed this way. Bad vintage?

I decanted it for 6-8 hours but had a small glass before decanting it, which was rich on spirit and "tawny" smell. Almost no fruit as known from ruby types. The decanting didn't help a bit and it was even weaker after decanting and not better in any way than less spirit on the nose. There was a fair amount of sediment but since this is actually my very first "old" VP to open myself, I can't say if there was more or less than would have been expected.

Needless to say I was very dissapointed and even though it's a 375cl bottle I haven't finished it yet. The remaining 15% or so is still in the fridge.

[Scott Anaya]

1/2 bottles do mature much faster than 750's or larger!

[Todd Pettinger]

Although the ½ bottles do mature faster than the 750s or larger, I have to admit I am still rather surprised by the dramatic tawny colouring for a Port that is only 20 years old.

I did have a '91 Krohn's VP that was showing a similar amount of tawny age... so maybe I shouldn't be that surprised.

Todd

[Al B.]

Morten

I have drunk the 1988 Cavadinha recently (although from a full bottle and not a half) and it was nothing like the port that you describe.

Mine was a deep red, opaque in the centre and the colour holding in to the rim. It was still young, although not youthful, and was full of mature fruit.

I suspect that your bottle has been badly stored in some way. I feel disappointed for you as this should be a pretty impressive port which brings a lot of drinking pleasure. Here's the tasting note I took from my last bottle about 18 months ago.

"I opened another bottle of the 1988 Cavadinha this weekend. It was sealed with a normal length cork, branded Quinta da Cavadinha 1988. The wine decanted cleanly off a modest amount of sediment. Some bottle stink similar to the experience last time was apparent on decanting, but much less pronounced that previously. This time the smell blew off after a couple of hours.

Tasted after 10 hours. The colour of the wine is still a deep red but is starting to show signs of browning at the edges. Nose of stewed plums and violets. Slightly bitter entry with sweetness masked. Lovely mid-palate of stewed fruits, lots of raisins. Long and lovely aftertaste that brings raisins and grape jelly for ages before slowly fading.

Better in my memory than the last bottle I opened. 89/100"

[Andy Velebil]

Small format bottles do age faster than their 750ml counterpart. I've had a 1980 Smith Woodhouse recently, both from 375ml and 750ml, and the 375 was FAR more advanced than the full size bottle. They were night and day apart as to how evolved they were. So I would suspect that the bottle size had a lot to do with it. Add in what Alex mentioned about possible bad storage, and there you have it. I would recommend giving it another chance, preferable from a full bottle and see if there is any major difference.

Of course, 1988 was a pretty horrible year for the Douro weather-wise. So I'm sure that has something to do with it also. Although I own a couple bottles of this, I've never had it yet. I will add this one to my Death Row and give it a go.

[Derek T.]

I'm still not convinced by the notion that the wine develops significantly faster in a small bottle, especially for a wine that is only 20 years old. Like Alex, I have had this before from a 750ml bottle and it was nothing like Morten's description or the photograph. I have no doubt that this 375ml bottle has not been properly stored.

I strongly suspect that lots of 375ml bottles suffer the same fate and this may well be the source of the perceived wisdom that small bottles age quickly. The only true test of this would be to take a 375ml, 750ml and a 150ml bottle of the same VP with exactly the same provenance and taste them all at the same time.

I am willing to volunteer to do the tasting if Andy puts up the bottles

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

The only true test of this would be to take a 375ml, 750ml and a 150ml bottle of the same VP with exactly the same provenance and taste them all at the same time.

I am willing to volunteer to do the tasting if Andy puts up the bottles

Derek

I will volunteer to ensure that Derek does not bring any bias into this experiment by being a 3rd party control...

Todd

[Andy Velebil]

I'm still not convinced by the notion that the wine develops significantly faster in a small bottle, especially for a wine that is only 20 years old.

Derek

Derek,

Small formats do age faster than larger ones. This is a known fact that ANY wine producer, from any part of the world, will agree with. The opposite is true for magnums, as they age slower than a 750ml bottle, and much more slower than a 375.

[Al B.]

Small formats do age faster than larger ones. This is a known fact that ANY wine producer, from any part of the world, will agree with. The opposite is true for magnums, as they age slower than a 750ml bottle, and much more slower than a 375.

Andy,

I've got to take you up on this. You say it's a known fact that any wine producer will agree with - that's like saying "Everyone knows that cats can't drive cars". Just because everyone says thay can't doesn't necessarily make it true.

I suspect that the aging theory is right - that smaller formats age faster than larger - but I am also unconvinced. I've had half bottles that taste really old and half bottles that taste really young. I've had full bottles of the same wine that taste older than a half bottle opened alongside it...and ones which taste more developed that half bottles I've had of the same port.

I would sum up my experience to say that I have tasted and seen more variation between bottles of the same size that I have seen between bottles of different sizes. The only way that anyone will ever convince me that small bottles mature more quickly than full bottles which mature more quickly than large bottles will be to give me the chance to taste from all three, side by side, where all have been stored in the same cellars right next to each other. Otherwise I see too much variability between bottles to be able to accept the size theory.

But you can bet that if ever you did organise such a side-by-side tasting then one of the bottles would be corked!

Alex